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C. Sharps vs. Shiloh? (Read 5325 times)
sbloom
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C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:18pm
 
I'm looking at purchasing either a C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps rifle in the next few months and would greatly appreciate any advice regarding which firm to go with. Over the years I've heard solid reports from C. Sharps and Shiloh owners and understand an accuracy issue Shiloh had years' back was resolved when they began making their own barrels.

My biggest question is that when you look at Gun List & other sale publications it appears that there are about 7 Shiloh's to 1 C. Sharps which made me wonder the reason for the discrepancy.

I'm a longtime ASSRA member but new to the website and love it, great job all around....
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hst
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #1 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 2:00pm
 
Mr. sbloom:

Both are good rifles. It would not surprise me to learn that the 7-1 ratio you see accurately represents the number of rifles produced by each company.

There is no doubt in my mind that I would go with a Shiloh. They are, IMO, the best made production rifle out there.  The company is well thought of and is a big supporter of the BPCR shooting sports.

Glenn
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Old-Win
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #2 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 8:36pm
 
Mr.Bloom,  I agree with Glenn on his choice.  I own a Shiloh in 45-90 that I received about 2 yrs ago and it is one of the finest built firearms you can find.  Being a custom built rifle made in the U.S.; the fit and finish are impeccable and well worth the money when compared to other custom built firearms.  I have not owned a C. Sharps but have handled and carefully looked at them in their display tent at the Quigley Buffalo Shoot in Forsyth Montana.  They are also well built but I give the edge to the Shiloh.  I have heard people talk about the accuracy issues between the two and C. Sharps does use the highly respected Badger barrels.  However, I had no problems getting good accuracy from my Shiloh which is around 2 moa.  Some people talk about getting better accuracy than that but for some reason, you never see there names near the top of the list.  Those that consistantly do well, are those that understand there rifle and how to load for it.  It takes some time but that's what makes it so enjoyable. Smiley  If you are going to buy used, I would stay away from the Farmingdales, not that they were poorly built, but I have seen a couple that were throated so the bullets can be seated farther out and as I understand, are a little harder to get to shoot.
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #3 - Jan 3rd, 2006 at 9:07pm
 
I have never spoke to anyone who had anything but good to say about both gun's accuracy. I have never owned either, but I've shot a number of both type guns owned by friends. They were very good shooters.
I liked the fit and finish slightly better on the Shiloh, and I liked the Shiloh's case colors much better.
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DonH
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #4 - Jan 8th, 2006 at 7:15am
 
sbloom;
Don't know if your question was answered to your satisfaction or not, but I will second
glenn's remarks. I have handled both makes but have no personal experience with c. Sharps rifles. I do own a Shiloh (Bryan production) and will say without hesitstion that factory support is second to none in my experience. The fit and finish is what I would expect for a rifle costing what these do (and I expected perfection). Accuracy has been better than I am capable on most days; 1 1/2 to 2 moa with an occasional 1 moa group. The main thing is , the Bryans stand by what they build and they build them well!

Don
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KAF
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #5 - Jan 8th, 2006 at 7:26am
 
Don Said:

"Accuracy has been better than I am capable on most days; 1 1/2 to 2 moa with an occasional 1 moa group."


I have shot with Don a bit, we shoot silly wetts together.
When he speaks of  1 and 1 1/2 moa groups, he speaks of his one shot groups.

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Keith L 3240
 
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DonH
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #6 - Jan 9th, 2006 at 6:50am
 
Naw, that's with my bigger guns. Like maybe the Snider.
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Kurt
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #7 - Jan 13th, 2006 at 6:57pm
 
I have looked at the C Sharps handled them and shot them a few times.
I now have three Shiloh's with one getting build.
I could have taken home a C Sharps when I was at there shop, but I was willing to wait for each and every one of my Shiloh's.

Kurt
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CRK
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #8 - Jan 15th, 2006 at 12:17am
 
Gentlemen,
   I must weigh in here as I own two C. Sharps rifles; a 45/70 Hi-Wall with their target iron peep sites( See what I mean Borton!)  and a 45-120 with a Melcom replica scope on it. I have done a little load developement with the 45/70 and a LOT with bthe 45/120. The latter now shoots, on demand(as a recent artical phrased it) into 1-3/8"groups. To do this get a flash hole swedger, a 30" powder loading tube and some Rem. 2-1/5 primers to go with your Swiss 1F powder and a good Paul Jones mould). That big Sharps realy makes those 300 to 1000 yd. silouwets go BONG compared to the rest of the guys on the range.
   C. Sharps uses Badger Barrels, so how good can you buy now that Harry Pope is gone?!
   The wood on these two rifles is great as is the wood to metal fit. Shilo Sharps is in the same town. C. Sharps does all it's casting. forging and heatreating in house, as well as wood curing and stocking fitting. They are a family owned business that produces very good rifles.
   Best Regards To All,
      CRK
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DonH
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #9 - Jan 15th, 2006 at 5:56am
 
Shiloh is owned by the Bryan family, have thier own investment casting foundry, and bore and rifle their own barrels (no they are not Badger but manage to win championships nevertheless), all written about in a not too distant past issue of the Joournal. What speaks volumes to me are things like the unsolicited donation of a Shiloh rifle (by the company owner) to a young new shooter who could not afford a rifle to get started
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JDSteele
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #10 - Jan 15th, 2006 at 10:47am
 
Also, what speaks volumes to me is the case of the owner of C Sharps trying to sell some of Sergio's PU sights as his own. Yes, he was caught red-handed at one of the National meets a few years ago, by one of my buds who happened to be one of the victims. My friend (the Coydog, if it matters) chanced to go into Sergio's area just after purchasing the supposedly-C-Sharps-made sight from John, and spotted the resemblance. After close comparison, he confronted the C Sharps owner who eventually reluctantly admitted the deception and refunded the money. Sergio was not a part of this & was just as surprised as my friend.

Yes, this speaks volumes to me. I will never do business with such a person.
But good luck to those of you who do (you may need it), Joe
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a U.S. soldier!
 
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Kurt
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #11 - Jan 15th, 2006 at 11:07am
 
DonH.

"unsolicited donation of a Shiloh rifle (by the company owner) to a young new shooter who could not afford a rifle to get started"

Don, It goes a lot farther then that with there generous donations, that you will never hear from them, to the Family's in need and to the shooting sports.

Kurt
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John_C
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #12 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 9:42am
 
I own both rifles. I have a custom Shiloh (waited 4 years for it) and a C. Sharps that I bought from existing inventory.

The Shiloh is better in the fit and finish. 

Customer Service: Because I purchased both guns from the manufacturer, I dealt with their staff.  The staff at Shiloh was always courteous and helpful.  My experience with the guy (owner?)at C. Sharps, can't remember his name, was that he was usually a bit touchy and a grouch.  I had the impression that once the gun was sold, he didn't want to hear from you.

Hardening of falling block: Both rifles had a characteristic that you may want to keep in mind. The falling blocks on the Shiloh and the C. Sharps were not hardened.  As a result some shoters were experiencing a problem where primers that were being blown back against the block face causing a pitting around the area of the firing pin hole.  I never experienced this problem with either gun.  A fix was developed for it by inserting a case hardened piece of metal where the primer blew back against the falling block.

As I remember it, guns made by Ballard did not have this problem because the blocks were hardened.

I don't know if this problem has been rectified by Shiloh or C. Sharps.

Based on my customer service experience and finish, I'd go with the Shiloh.

The accuracy of the rifles depends very much on your abilities as a handloader to do VERY consistent bullet casting and loading.  I use foundry lead, weigh each powder charge and use powder and primers from the same lot, etc. etc. etc.   I get good results, particularly with Swiss black powder.

From a competition standpoint, your shooting technique must always be consistent as well. A good spotter who can dope the wind is worth his weight in gold! Smiley
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ken_hurst 910-221-5288
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #13 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 4:37pm
 
Besides donating a rifle to a young woman just getting started, Shiloh also heard of one of our fellow shooters whose new born was in dire need of a heart operation. The baby was air lifted to Philly Childrens Hospital for the operation & recovery at great expense to the parents. The bread winner was out of work for quite a while & finianially hurting, A group of guys decided to ask for help amongst people in the business for donations that could be reffled off to raise money. Shiloh was one of the first to come forward and donated a fine rifle , no questions asked. My opinion FWIW is that this type of Co. should be recognized & patronized !!  Besides thses donations,  I personally have found after engraving many sharps made by both co's. is that the Shiloh produces a better machined & fitted rifle.  Thats my story and I'm sticking with it.   Ken
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Kurt
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #14 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 6:17pm
 
And also I understand Ken donated the engraving that rifle.

Kurt
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Lee_Stone
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #15 - Jan 23rd, 2006 at 2:50pm
 
Ken not only donated an engraving job for that rifle, but he also donated a second engraving job to be auctioned off separately. He is right up there with the good guys, just like Shiloh! The fund raiser was very succcessful and the little boy is doing great! And the family is doing great, thanks to the generosity of wonderul people like Ken Hurst, the Shiloh folks  and a lot of others

And since we are mentioning accolades, a marvelous gentleman by the name of David Barfield is the one who thought up and ram-rodded the auction for those folks. He is the epitomy of the fine  Southern Gentleman and is a very fine shooter to boot.

To keep with the theme of this thread, I also lean to the Shilohs. I presently own three Shiloh Sharps and have two more on order. I've examined and shot C-Sharps and they are fine rifles, but I own three Shilohs and have two more on order.
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« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2006 at 2:58pm by N/A »  
 
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buffalobreath
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #16 - Jan 28th, 2006 at 11:47am
 
I have a rifle from C. Sharps and a carbine from Shiloh and both are excellent products.  C. Sharps has the advantage of delivering more quickly.  I ordered a "Boss Gun" in .45-70 with Grade I engraving and it arrived four months and four days after I placed the phone order.  As others have said, it can take years to received a Shiloh.  I have another Shiloh on order and it's been two years and counting.  I'm not saying this as a complaint, just to demonstrate one of the differences between the companies.

If you want more information about C. Sharps, call them and ask for a catalog, their web site is woefully out of date.  Their phone number is (406) 932-4353.

As I understand it, the two companies were once part of a single enterprise.  Shiloh made the guns and C. Sharps marketed them.  The partners had a falling out and C. Sharps went its own way.  I've always been interested in knowing more details about this, especially since both companies are at opposite ends of the same street in the small town of Big Timber, Montana.  At least, that's the version I heard.  The bottom line is, it's none of my business and the quality of their rifles is first class.

Mike
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« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2006 at 6:08pm by buffalobreath »  

Age 58 from Missoula, MT.&&2 Montana built Sharps 1874s & 1 Pedersoli Trapdoor carbine
 
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DonH
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #17 - Jan 29th, 2006 at 6:54am
 
The split was between the original owners of the two companies and occured back in the 80s. . Shiloh has been under the current ownership since early 90s.
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dave_j
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Re: C. Sharps vs. Shiloh?
Reply #18 - Apr 8th, 2006 at 1:04am
 
fwiw Tongue    i bought a Shiloh Long Range Express in 1987 but did not get to shoot it in a match until 2003. long story
when i did put 150 rounds through it I found the brass was bulging on one side. I showed it to Kirk Bryan and he immediately knew the problem. seems the previous owners liked to hand lap the chambers and "jugged" mine. Long story short Shiloh replaced the barrel and even made it octagon to round and would not take a penny. Kirk said it is his name on the product and when it says lifetime warranty, that's what it means. For my money it is Shiloh or golf.
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ah heck  AA#9,4227,300MP, as long as it goes bang
 
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