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Normal Topic 5.6x35R Vierling=.22WCF=.22Hornet?? Confused! (Read 8698 times)
Paul_F.
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5.6x35R Vierling=.22WCF=.22Hornet?? Confused!
Aug 28th, 2006 at 9:28pm
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Just acquired a rifle in "5.6x35R Vierling" cartridge...
Don't have it in my grubby mitts yet (but soon!).

Been doing book and google research  on the cartridge, so I can start collecting things to make some ammo for it. 
I'm getting awfully confused!
A couple sources intimate that it's "the same" as .22 WCF.
Another says that it's "practically identical" to .22 Hornet.
Well, those two are not functionally identical to each other (are they?)...

So I'm left wondering...
Where the heck do I get the RIGHT dies for it?

The smart thing is to wait until I have the rifle and make a chamber cast, then measure the bejeezus out of it with lots of books in my lap....
But no one ever said I was smart!

Would appreciate any knowledge about the "5.6x35R Vierling" cartridge, it's manufacture, and shooting (cast bullets or jacketed).

Paul F.
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: 5.6x35R Vierling=.22WCF=.22Hornet?? Confused!
Reply #1 - Aug 29th, 2006 at 12:37am
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My one, very limited, experience with the cartridge involved a very tired Hubertus vierling a lotta years ago. The case body appeared to be the same as the Hornet but the rim of the vierling cartridge was much thinner than the Hornet, so much so in fact that a Hornet cartridge stood absolutely no chance of fully chambering unless the rim was thinned considerably from the front. AAMOF the barrels had been sprung slightly due to someone attempting to brute-force the action closed on a Hornet cartridge (Dural frame).

The groove dia was close to 0.224" but I didn't measure the twist. Lands were sharp and pronounced although the grooves were not cut abnormally deep, as so many of these European rilfes seem to be. Guess in that case it mighta had a 0.228" groove dia, maybe. I have always assumed that the Europeans took the 0.228" 22 WCF & used it in the early days around 1900 with the usual-for-that-time extremely deep rifling & oversize groove dia with black powder & lead bullet, and then later changed it to 0.224" when smokeless powder & jacketed bullets had largely replaced black in the days around WW1. Just an idle speculation. I wonder if the abnormally-thick Hornet rim was created in order to prevent chambering in the older 22 WCF rifles? The 22 WCF walls I've owned seemed to accept the Hornet cartridges OK although I never fired any.
HTH, good luck, Joe
  

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Dale53
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Re: 5.6x35R Vierling=.22WCF=.22Hornet?? Confused!
Reply #2 - Sep 3rd, 2006 at 5:57pm
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The .22 WCF came first. It was nominally .228 bore diameter. The "Vierling" was a German "modernized" .22 WCF. Bore dimensions varied depending upon who made them (sound familiar? Smiley) The .22 Hornet was an American "modernized" .22 WCF with an original bore diameter of .223" and later changed to the American "standard" for .22 centerfires of .224" bore diameter.

The velocity differences were considerable between the three cartridges. The WCF was a black powder cartridge, the Vierling was of "intermediate" velocity whereas the Hornet was of "high velocity" ( 2600 fps with a .45 gr bullet, today).

Dale53
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: 5.6x35R Vierling=.22WCF=.22Hornet?? Confused!
Reply #3 - Sep 3rd, 2006 at 6:54pm
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Thanks for the tips!

I now have the rifle in-hand... (should I mention that it's not exactly a single shot?...).
The bolt closes easily on a .22 hornet brass (I have no live Hornet to try).

Wish I could take a chamber cast, but the size of the action makes it awfully hard to get my fingers (much less a funnel for cerro-safe) in there.

I need to figure out what dies I need... (inexpensive) Hornet dies, (moderately expensive) .22 WCF, or (very expensive) CH4D 5.6x35R Vierling dies...

Dying to shoot this rifle! Smiley

Paul F.
  
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Re: 5.6x35R Vierling=.22WCF=.22Hornet?? Confused!
Reply #4 - Sep 4th, 2006 at 10:50am
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 This is an interesting thread.
The four references I have to these different cases all show them to be identical, if you are willing to allow for different people measuring different cases in different decades +- .002. The interesting thing I found is that the bullet diamater for the Vierling is .222.
 Slug the barrel to find out what you need and load with standard Hornet dies.
 Partial size your cases for reloading and you should have no trouble shooting a bolt gun. Hope this helps----Bob
  
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