Welcome, Guest. Please Login
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
  By continuing to use the forum you are agreeing to the updated Forum Rules. If you do not agree with the updated Forum Rules you may close your account.
  HomeHelpSearchMember MapLogin ASSRA HomePage  
 
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Action Castings by Rodney Storie (Read 10869 times)
james a pickup
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 366

richardson,tx, USA
Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #15 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 9:01pm
 
I'm currently building a 1874 Sharps kit cause i've always wanted one, and even a Shiloh Sharps will run 3K these days. So far so good, i've not ruinted anything yet-i am not a machinest but my father was one of the best.He used to joke where he worked on the Us navy(Usn Alameda) there were only two good machinests in the whole naval air rework facility and the other one was an Ex-German Soldier from WW2;.
As to a Vertical Shaper, i have one it's called a FILE. I do have a Lathe and a Milling machine and i make all my own screws, i single-tool them cause where will find a .203-40 Tap(Sharps lever link screw)?.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paul_Skvorc
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 41

Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #16 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 12:28am
 
Interesting.

Love to hear about your progress on the 1874 Sharps singleshotman.

I've pretty much decided to get what Stanley has in hand if I can get hold of him again.

Paul
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
harry_eales
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Aw heck, vegetable stew,
AGAIN.

Posts: 1677

County Durham, Great Britain
Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #17 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 7:24am
 
Paul_F. wrote on Mar 14th, 2008 at 8:48pm:
Ah ha...  It seems that Mr 4477 is actually Rodney Storie.
I'll drop him an email, but he probably won't be 100% unbaised, since he makes the things Smiley

Paul F.

PS I really HATE all things Microsoft... took me 45 minutes of hoop-jumping to just get registered with MSN's forums.


Sorry Paul_F,

I didn't know that 4477 and Rodney Storie were one and the same person.

Your not alone in having problems with Microsoft and the MSN BPCR Groups site. I used to be able to access and post to that site. Today I click on their 'post' button and I not only loose the connection to that site, but my I.P. (AOL) crashes as well. Grrr.

Harry
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
irish66
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 472

newbraunfels, Texas, USA
Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #18 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 7:29am
 
paul,
I spend10 hrs a aday cranking handles. so looking at doing a raw casting that i think is junk. and a LOT of work is not in the cards.
find an old rifle and give it a new life. i like to try and get oldies looking good again.
cheers
irish
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MerwinBray
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


Aw Gees

Posts: 857

Kansas City, KS, Kansas, USA
Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #19 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 9:13am
 
Does anyone know if the Storie kits need any kind of hardening when done? When I asked Wes Stanley that question he told me they are made of armory steel, but didn't really answer the question. I don't know what that means, it sounds strong. My knowledge of metals is limited to ordering oil/air hardening drill rod, spring steel, etc. I am still learning and always will be.
So dothey need hardened/tempered to be safe?
Merwin
Back to top
 

ASSRA&&N-SSA&&NRA
 
IP Logged
 
Paul_Skvorc
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 41

Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #20 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 10:18am
 
Quote:
but didn't really answer the question


Has been my experience too. Heck I can't hardly find out what he has on hand.

Quote:
find an old rifle and give it a new life. i like to try and get oldies looking good again.


Not bad advice, and some that I take sincerely, BUT... I live in rural Alaska, and "finding an old rifle" is considerably easier said than done from here. First, there isn't the single shot community here in Alaska that there is Outside. Second, and more importantly, I do a lot of milsurp conversions and restorations, and when it's all said and done, it's rare that I end up with what I really want. There are always 'compromises' because of what I start with. I'm tired of that. I want to have something when finished, that is what I wanted when I started.

In this case, I want a falling block action that I can chamber in .50-90 that I can build a rifle around. Heck, I'd settle for a Ruger No. 1 if I wouldn't have to part with a 700 dollar bill for an action in which I could buy a whole rifle for $550. (I know, buy the rifle and take the action. I may, but that doesn't let me build the action.) On that note, let me digress a moment. I find it insulting when a manufacturer charges more for an action or barreled action than they do for a complete rifle. It's arrogant... to say the least. And Ruger isn't the only one that does that. Angry

Actually, getting a "kit" is stepping back a bit from what I originally intended, which was making an action from scratch from "a chunk of steel". The roadblock I've run into there is getting plans for a falling block - ANY falling block. I am ordering the drawings from ASSRA's archives. Maybe that will settle the matter.

I appreciate the cautionary note, truly, and it hangs prominently in the decision.

Paul
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paul_F.
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 887

Eureka, CA, California, USA
Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #21 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 11:31am
 
Merwin;

I was told that the castings are 8620 and most breechblocks are 4140.
They are fine "as-is" for low pressure, low back-thrust, cartridges, but should be hardened for anything with heft to it.  The reciever, being 8620, will probably be just fine case-colored.  I'm thinking that any of the good case-color shops can take care of the block heat treating as well.

Can't find my correspondence with Wes Stanley at the moment, but that's my recollection of it.   Been a couple years now since I got the DS Cole kit.  Really need to put that on the front burner at some point...

Paul F.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bent_Ramrod
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 485

Southern California, California, USA
Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #22 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 12:15pm
 
The casting sets I have came from either Bison Mfg. or Tools Intl. both essentially the same foundry in Oklahoma.  I don't know if Storie took over that business or has started his own; the casting sets look similar.

I've gotten furthest along with a Ballard action casting set, although I still have a good ways to go.  The castings were of good quality in that they had no bubbles or cracks in them and they were mostly of a size sufficient to reduce them to finished dimensions.  The partial exception is the breechblock, which slumps slightly in the center; this does not affect the fit and the area that is slightly lower than the outer edges shouldn't affect the function, and should be hidden by the receiver in use.

I set the receiver casting up in a big lathe and bored and threaded the cast barrel hole, then reversed for the tang hole.  Once these were done, I made mandrels, spacers and other tooling so I could mount the receiver on a dividing head and trim off the sides and top so the metal was even around the center of the barrel.  I surface ground the breechblock on the outside, milled the casting on the inside for the internal parts and fitted the halves together the old-fashioned way.  The breechblock still has some fitting needed in order to seat it and the internal parts mostly still need fitting, although I have the lever and extractor fitted and the set trigger plate half done.  All this took slightly over one semester, three nights a week, at the Machine Tool Technology course at my local junior college.  I probably have at least that much time left in bench work before the action is ready to be sent out for heat-treat.

I heat-treated the mainspring, which was also a casting, and found that it works fine.  (It isn't 8620; some other number that I can't remember.  Amazing what they can do with castings anymore.)  I would say the castings should be of sufficient quality to build a good rifle with, if the builder is reasonably competent with machine tools and layout, and goes slow enough so the mistakes can be headed off before they become catastrophic.  The older single shots were nice and simple mechanically, for the most part.  It does help, though, to have one around for comparison, but there are pictures and exploded drawings in books.  I think Storie has plans for sale for some of the actions, but for the most part, you might as well set your action up internally and forget about making it up to gauge and blueprint.  The screws and pins on my Ballard are National Fine threads with dimensions as close to the drill sizes that are as close to the original sizes as I can get them.  Barrel and tang threads are original, but you'll be making up plenty of tooling and fixtures as it is; why drive yourself crazy making "authentic" reamers and taps for all those holes when a standard drill size and thread will be just as good?  Similarly, if my breech block fits my receiver and no other, I doubt if that will affect the universe significantly in the long term.  It is a "kit" after all, not a toolroom gauge exemplar.

Hope this helps.  It's a lot of work, but it's much more satisfying being a "manufacturer" than it is being a "consumer."
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
JCHannum
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 265

Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #23 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 12:17pm
 
To chime in here, I am in the final stages of building a high wall from Frontier Armory castings, and I am pleased with the results and products.

I have not had any problems contacting Wes by e-mail or phone, he has a day job, and evenings are the best time to phone. He has returned my messages, but it might take a day or two.

The high wall is probably one of their more popular castings, and hence probably more refined than others. While it might not produce a totally dimensionally correct high wall replica, it will make an acceptable action if reasonable care is taken in building. It does require a lathe and milling machine, or perhaps a milling attachment and much hand fitting to complete.

This is a photo of the castings as received;

http://members.aol.com/jchannum/hiwall

The lever was backordered, and received several months later. They did not have a single trigger lever, and sent a double set trigger with a single trigger coil spring lever I could use as a pattern to cut and weld the longer lever.

The castings were all of good quality, with no inclusions or voids. They are obviously made from original parts rather than patterns and do not always leave a lot of machining material, so some planning and figuring is recommended before cutting metal. I ended up making a new breech block because of this, and haste, the fault being mine for not taking time to think things through.

I am a hobbiest machinist, and have had no formal training, but I have built several engines and other items from castings, and did not find the Frontier Armory castings any more or less of a problem than any other castings I have used. 

The action parts are all of 8620 steel and will caseharden, the springs are 6150 and can be heat treated at home with a little help. The 8620 TIG or gas welds nicely, and blunders or modifications are easily accomplished if you have these options available to you.

I believe both Rodney and Wes have day jobs, and are somewhat at the mercy of the foundry for castings and delivery, so they will not always have everything in stock.

Their listing rates the actions as to difficulty of building, the high wall being number 3, the Stevens 44-1/2 & Ballard being number 4, so they will have added difficulty. I have found the high wall design to be rather forgiving in the build, a testimony to John Browning's original design.
Back to top
 

Jim H.
 
IP Logged
 
Paul_Skvorc
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 41

Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #24 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 12:44pm
 
Now there's what I was hoping for... Hands on experience with their product. Thank you very much for taking the time to provide the thorough explanations.

Quote:
you might as well set your action up internally and forget about making it up to gauge and blueprint.  The screws and pins on my Ballard are National Fine threads with dimensions as close to the drill sizes that are as close to the original sizes as I can get them.  Barrel and tang threads are original, but you'll be making up plenty of tooling and fixtures as it is; why drive yourself crazy making "authentic" reamers and taps for all those holes when a standard drill size and thread will be just as good?  Similarly, if my breech block fits my receiver and no other, I doubt if that will affect the universe significantly in the long term.
Precisely my perspective. "Authentic" isn't driving the boat.

It was not my intent to disparage Wes Stanley. But it has been difficult to get straight answers as to what is in hand ready for shipment (even when on the phone) and  emails have been cryptic and have taken as much as a week to get a response.

Looks like I'll be getting something(?) from Frontier Armory.

Thanks again for the 'hands on' information.

Paul
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MerwinBray
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


Aw Gees

Posts: 857

Kansas City, KS, Kansas, USA
Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #25 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 12:54pm
 
JC,
A very good post! For what it's worth, I am glad that some one is offering these kits. Hobbiest in metal sometimes seems like a dying breed. I have been teaching myself basics for years on the little lathe I bought and now on my larger one. I have bought the different home machinist type mags and try to glean info, and would see the kits for engines and such. It wasn't until I found Frontier and the Rifle Shoppe that I really got motivated to go with my tools. Sometimes a casting is the only way to get a replacemnt part for an old gun unless you wait years and check many shows or pay out the wazoo, and I ain't rich. Filing and drilling and fitting the metal castings I use to learn, sure, I have screwed them up but I have made them work, too.
I bought one of the re and de cappers from them and had it together in a couple days, still haven't finished it(as in polishing the metal, it is working ) but I learned even from that kit. I hope to buy another to try something different next time. I keep wondering if that brass will nickel plate well, I think it will.
Please keep us updated on the progress, gives me hope!!

Paul_S,
My wife is from Homer, AK. WHen we went up there I asked in a couple places about shooting and you are right, didn't seem to be much interest in old single shots. I know there is someone on this board that is from the Homer area, can't remember his handle and don't know where you are. I had always hoped to get back up and go caribou hunting with my inlaws near Kenai with my rolling block, looks that that is a long ways off right now.
WHat ever action you build kepps us posted as well, love seeing projects progress!
Merwin
Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2008 at 8:06pm by MerwinBray »  

ASSRA&&N-SSA&&NRA
 
IP Logged
 
JCHannum
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 265

Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #26 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 3:06pm
 
A source for plans for a falling block action that has not been mentioned is the Walter Meuller book "Building a Single Shot Rifle Action" that is a reprint of a series of articles that appeared in Home Shop Machinist magazine.

It is available through the publishers, Village Press, as well as Brownells and several other sources. It is less than $20.00, and in addition to plans for a very nice action, offers a lot of information and techniques that can be applied to the build of any action. It is a good investment for anyone with interest in this ares.

I wanted a high wall action, and elected to go with the Storie castings.
Back to top
 

Jim H.
 
IP Logged
 
wwben47
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 20

Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #27 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 8:24pm
 
Maybe I missed it in the previous replies, but Buffalo Arms sells "machinists drawings" for a bunch of different actions...they say you can use them to "make that part you need" ..or to make a complete action.  Are these not suitable  for an experienced, well equipped machinist to make an action??
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
JCHannum
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 265

Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #28 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 9:38pm
 
If you want to go that route, the Buffalo arms drawings are $140.00 for the high wall. Frontier Armory sells the same drawings for $20.00.

Yes, you could build an action from the drawings if you were so inclined. The cost of the castings is low enough that it might be more economical to purchase them rather than the raw materials and specialized tooling that would be needed to build one action.
Back to top
 

Jim H.
 
IP Logged
 
Paul_Skvorc
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 41

Re: Action Castings by Rodney Storie
Reply #29 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 10:36pm
 
MerwinBray - I'm in Wasilla.

JCHannum - I've got Mueller's pamphlet. It's just not what I'm looking for.

wwben47 - Yup, I was aware of Buffalo Arms "machinist's drawings" but it rankles me a bit to pay that kind of money for something that the purveyor did absolutely nothing to produce except photocopy - even if it is a "really good" photocopy. I should add I suppose that I have, on occassion, been known to cut off my nose to spite my face.

JCHannum - I was unaware that Frontier Armory sold ANY drawings. Wes Stanley told me they have "no paper work and no plans".

I think I'm 'locked on and tracking' with the Storey 'kit'. It's just a matter of whether or not he has in hand an action I'm interested in.

Paul
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print