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Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rifles (Read 3052 times)
texasmac
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Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rifles
Oct 16th, 2008 at 1:22am
 
A few words on the Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rifles

I’ve reported on these rifles some time ago and touched on some of the details of the sales agreement between Winchester and Davidson’s (the exclusive distributor).  Since their introduction around two years ago I’ve sold over 30 rifles.  During that time there have been some question concerning Winchester/Davidson’s agreement and their use of the term “Limited Edition”, hence the reason for this posting.

The Davidsons/Winchester deal resulted in the manufacture of 251 of the .45-90 Win. 34" barrel Creedmoor rifles with sights. The same deal also resulted in the manufacture of 126 Creedmoor rifles in .45-90 Win. with 30" barrels and no sights and 126 Creedmoor rifles in .50-90 Sharps with 30" barrels with no sights.

I understand that the Limited Edition deal Davidsons & Winchester worked out was actually structured to manufacture 126 rifles of each model per year as long as there was sufficient customer interest.  But after the above noted quantities were manufactured, Davidsons made it clear to dealers that there would be no more.  Apparently there wasn’t sufficient customer demand to justify additional quantities.

All similar descriptors such as limited series, special editions, express caliber, magnum caliber, etc. are in fact "marketing terms" to catch your attention and sell more firearms.  But in this case, based on the planned small quantities to be manufactured each year, I can easily see how they justify calling them "limited editions".  Most firearms models are made in quantities of at least several thousands over many years, and some in the hundreds of thousands.

For those of you that may be interested in one of the Winchester Creedmoor rifles, allow me to give you something to consider.  In 1998 Browning made only 330 Creedmoor rifles in .45-90 caliber with 34" barrels.  The MSRP at the time was around $1700.  These rifles are now being sold for $3000 or more in like new condition.  I know of two recent sales for $3500 each.  Assuming only a similar increase in value, what do you think the Winchester's will be worth in a few years?  The two models of only 126 rifles should increase in value at a faster rate.

As many of you realize, the U.S. Repeating Arms Company (USRA) is no longer in business and the right to use the Winchester trademark is now licensed from the Olin Corporation by Winchester Repeating Arms (WRA).  WRA is now a part of Browning Arms.  So the rifles are actually built by Miroku (in Japan) for Browning and marketed under the Winchester brand.

Wayne
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c.robertson
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Re: Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rif
Reply #1 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 7:42am
 
Thank you TEXASMAC/Wayne for the information.

You information just tickles the tar outta me. In previous posts I related how I purchased a Browning Creedmoor at Cabela's for $1,600.00.
(+ tax=extortion) It is a 1998 manufactured rifle, one of the 330. It had a sight problem that only required a small adjustment, small burrs on the tang screws, and almost unnoticable scratches on the frame. Otherwise, PERFECT.
I have tried to post photos, but they will not load.
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GCurtis
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Re: Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rif
Reply #2 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 11:55am
 
Texasmac, good stuff, thanks for posting. Maybe you have some information on another of the Limited Editions from Davidsons. This is the 405 WCF High wall rifles.

Originally touted as a run of 100 rifles per year for 5 years. So far I have seen only 2 "years" of production make it to the marketplace and this is over a five year or so period.

I purchased one of the first year rifles, It has the upper tang and is setup for tang peep, barrel dovetail rear and barrel dovetail front sights. Also drilled and tapped for scope mounts.

I see that the "second year" production rifles areof the "Traditional Hunter" with no provision whatsoever for sights, only drilled and tapped for scope mounts. Also removed the crescent butt and put a rubber pad in it's place.

I absolutley love my rifle, I fitted it the AMT made soule and spirit level front sights. Shoots wonderfully with full power or reduced smokeless loads. With the right bullet it shoots the orignal balck powder very well. I have won a turkey shoot with it at the local range. Offhand shooting at turkey silhouettes at 385 meters.

Now admittedly this is a special interest rifle, same as the creedmores addressed in your post. Why would they go the scope only route and elimante provisions for sights? Seems like there would be less interest in this "second year" rifle than in the first year rifles. marketing? new management? trying to salvage a limited market? or broaden appeal?

Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.  Smiley
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texasmac
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Re: Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rif
Reply #3 - Oct 16th, 2008 at 12:23pm
 
GCurtis,

I don’t have much information on the .405 Win. version.  I’m a small time dealer and focused on BPC rifles typically used for silhouette and Creedmoor compeition. When the Limited Edition were being released by Davidson’s, I decided to focus on only the BPC rifle models.  I do have some initial technical details on the .405 Win. rifles but have not paid close attention to the quantity built.  With that said, I’d be very surprised that only 100 rifles per year were planned.  I have had several discussions with both Davidson’s and Winchester.  The Limited Edition .405 Win. were included in the same agreement, which stipulated 126 rifles for the 1st year and 125 each subsequent year.  Therefore a total of either 126 or possibly 251 of the .405 Win. rifles have been built.  Sorry I can’t provide more details.  By the way, the following technical information is what I have on file:

Manufacturer: Miroku for Winchester Arms / Browning Arms.
Model #: 1885 Limited Series
Type: Rifle
Finish: Blue
Receiver: Blue, Drilled & Tapped
Stock: Walnut, Satin, Checkered, Straight
Sights: Marbles Blade Front & Rear Tang Mounted Peep
Barrel Length: 28" with Semi-Buckhorn Rear Sight
Rifling Twist Rate: 1:14
Overall Length: 44.5"
Weight: 9lbs
Butt Plate Recoil Pad: Crescent Buttplate with Strap on Top
Additional Features: Octagonal Barrel
Suggested Retail Price: $1,320.31

Although Badger barrels were used with the BPCR versions, I understand Miroku manufactured the barrels for the .405 Win. and other Limited Edition copies of the old Browning Traditional Hunter rifles.

I hope this helps.

Wayne
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texasmac
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Re: Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rif
Reply #4 - Oct 17th, 2008 at 12:25pm
 
For anyone reading my earlier posting, please do not interpret it as a veiled attempt to sell more rifles.  After reading my initial post again I can just hear someone saying, “There’s ol’ TexasMac again, once more deviously attempting to use this forum to sell rifles”.  If you feel that way, you couldn’t be more wrong.  If you have read my posts on this and other forums, going back as far as 1996, I have continued to post updates on Browning and now Winchester BPC rifles as I continue to research and try to stay current on the subject.  I sell Browning and Winchester BPCRs as a sideline and do well to break even on the sales.  The main reason is it helps in my research and I get to meet and exchange information with lots of folks on this and other forums that share the same interests, and with new shooters to the sport of BPCR silhouette and Creedmoor competition.

I have and will continue giving Denny Wilcox & Browning a lot of credit for stepping up and introducing a reasonably priced “complete” BPC production rifle in 1996, at a time when the only “good” BPCR silhouette rifles were available from custom suppliers costing much more.  It’s unfortunate that a few years later they decided to discontinue the entire M1885 line, including the three versions/calibers of BPCRs.  Now, under the Winchester brand, Browning & Davidsons is giving shooters another chance to purchase one.  I only wish the rifles were also available in .45-70, .40-65 or .38-55, but the current crop of Win. Limited Edition Creedmoor rifles are certainly chambered for a very popular round (.45-90), which is ideal for the extended target ranges in Creedmoor competition and very successfully used by some for silhouette.

Wayne
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sakoman
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Re: Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rif
Reply #5 - Oct 17th, 2008 at 8:41pm
 
TexasMac,

Thanks for the information.

Do you know if the recent rifles in 32-40 and 38-55 have top tangs for a tang sight?

Do you know what other calibers are being considered by Winchester?
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texasmac
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Re: Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rif
Reply #6 - Oct 18th, 2008 at 9:07am
 
Sako Man,

Although I have not purchased one for personal use or resale I understand they do have a rear tang and come from Winchester with Marble rear sights attached.  I also understand they are exact copies of the Browning Traditional Hunter model, which have a rear tang.  Check out the following photo, which I pulled off Davidsons dealer sight.  I cannot imagine Winchester mounting a rear sight without a tang.  By the way, I’m seriously considering ordering one in .38-55 and switching out the stock with a BPCR stock to use for deer hunting.

Wayne

...
Click on the photo for a larger image
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sakoman
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Re: Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rif
Reply #7 - Oct 18th, 2008 at 1:42pm
 
Will  a BPCR stock fit without having to cut or bend anything?  It is a pistol grip.
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38_Cal
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Re: Winchester M1885 Limited Edition Creedmoor rif
Reply #8 - Oct 18th, 2008 at 4:12pm
 
No lower tang on the Japanese made Winchester/Browning 1885 rifles, so any configuration grip will work if the action matches up to the stock with either a top tang or no top tang for a sight.  They use a through bolt to hold the stock to the action.

David
Montezuma, IA
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« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2008 at 11:48am by 38_Cal »  

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
 
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