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tommyauger
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large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
May 26th, 2009 at 10:05pm
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Has anyone ever used large pistol primers in a 45-70 duplex load??? Having trouble finding large rifle but I have some large pistol just wondering if it might work??? Tommy Auger Embarrassed Embarrassed
  

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texasmac
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #1 - May 26th, 2009 at 10:48pm
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Tommy,

The following info is much more than you asked for or likely need.  I posted the information on another forum and edited it for posting here.  Hopefully it will help.

Wayne
=================

Several years ago the thinking was that large rifle magnum primers were necessary for reliable black powder ignition and to maximize accuracy to ranges out to 1000 yards. But, in the last few years, BPCR shooters have come to realize that milder primers are the key in reducing variances from shot to shot, especially when using powder such as Swiss, which generally is not compressed in the case. If using Goex with lots of compression, magnum rifle primers may still be the ticket.

In most situations, large pistol primers provide plenty of power to reliably ignite black powder. In fact many BPCR silhouette shooters place a thin paper wad inside the case and over the primer prior to loading the powder. Others use the primer as the paper punch, inserting the paper in between the primer and the case when inserting the primer.  Primer wads results in two possible benefits: they further dampen or reduces the power of the primer and insures that kernels of powder do not get into the primer hole.

Experience reloaders know that the thickness or profile of pistol primers is a little smaller or lower than rifle primers. Therefore, using large pistol primers in rifle cases can lead to two problems: 1) if not fully seated the primer may move forward under firing pin impact, significantly reducing the impact and leading to unreliable ignite, 2) if the large pistol primer is fully seated it will move back and impact the face of the breechblock around the firing pin upon powder ignition. With modern day hardened breechblock, primer peening is generally not a problem. But with older firearms this may damage the face of the breechblock.
  
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BP
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #2 - May 26th, 2009 at 11:17pm
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Tommy,
Some time ago, an old shooting buddy aquired two 45-70 rifled inserts (made by Savage if I remember correctly) and used them in an 1894 Remington 12ga side by side to make up a poormans double rifle.

The 45-70 handloads he started with were straight smokeless using large rifle primers. After initial testing, he found that the shotgun wouldn't consistently set off the large rifle primers, so he switched to the softer large pistol primers to achieve reliable ignition.

It was a somewhat heavy outfit to carry, but he hunted successfully with that "double rifle" for many years.

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BP
  

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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #3 - May 27th, 2009 at 1:11am
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Tommy---LP primers are widely used today in BPCR by competitors. Only problem is they are about .010 shallower than Lg rifle primers. When seated properly and when fired the primers back up against the breech face. In time there may be some wear on the breech block depending on how hard the surface is.
  
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tommyauger
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #4 - May 27th, 2009 at 8:10am
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thank you to all I will load up a couple and give it a try.
Tommy Auger
  

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Quarter_Bore
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #5 - May 27th, 2009 at 9:24am
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I wonder if that peening of the breech block is not a myth or something that only applies to cheap rifles. I have an original .32-40 Hiwall that I have shot more then 25,000 times, all with pistol primers and there is no indication of any problem. Of course this is with smokeless powder.
  

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J. pickup
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #6 - May 27th, 2009 at 2:42pm
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I've been reading one of my old favorites, a 1966 Handloaders Digest-these's an article by frank barnes on shooting old BPCR's ,he of course used large pistol primers-i've been doing it for the last 40 or so years with never a problem.Of interest about POWER of primers there's an article where they fired and tested primers energy.Now get this-all those people who think that large rifle magums were too powerful were RIGHT. Large pistol, 4.0 foot pounds energy, large rifle 8.00 foot pounds energy.Large rifle magrum, 10.50 foot pounds.See?These test were of course run in the 1960's, but i think they would still be the same today.
  
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texasmac
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #7 - May 27th, 2009 at 3:01pm
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Concerning large pistol primers, the general feeling is that Winchester primers are the hottest, Federal and CCI fall into the middle range, and Remington the mildest. Nowadays, the preferred large pistol primers for BPCR silhouette seems to be Rem. 2&1/2, or Fed. 150 (or 150M - as in match grade), with some shooters having good success with Win. WLP. I have read where a couple of shooters used CCI 300 but don't remember the results.

Wayne
  
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #8 - May 27th, 2009 at 5:39pm
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And to further muddy the waters I hear some shooters are going back  from Large Pistol to regular rifle primers in the 32/40 and 38/55.

Considering how hard it is to obtain primers these days I say use what you can get.  If in doubt back the load off then work back up, Always a good practice.

Boats
  
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #9 - May 27th, 2009 at 6:22pm
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Tommy, I have been using Large Pistol primers in all my Single shots for over 30 years with no bad results. Stiffest load in 45-70 was 28 grs 4759 behind a 500 gr bullet in a Borchardt. Another was a Sharps Express 45 X 2 7/8"  45-120. Load was 10 grs 4759 and 100 grs Elephant Fg all behind a 535 Gr Postell Bore size bullet. Shot it out to 1000 yds with success. I will warn you don't get primers mixed up. I did once and in a match with the 45-70 found shots missing the repair center target at 200 yds. The difference between large pistol and large rifle would take the zero from under the target to over. HA! HTH
Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #10 - May 28th, 2009 at 10:16pm
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I too have been using LP primers for 45-70 black powder reloads - Federal 150 Match with excellent results to reduce the brisance.  So are many of the long range and silhouette match shooters.
  

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John Corney
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Re: large pistol primers for 45-70 loads??????
Reply #11 - May 29th, 2009 at 8:39am
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Let's stir the pot.  Wink First, when you find a load that works in your rifle, stick to it, regardless. When you review the information of the differences between manufacturers of a single style and type of primer, can you say a large pistol is better than a large rifle catagorically?  Undecided If you'rn a winnin' them thar matches with a super-zip double magnum and you gun aint' a bein' showin any signs a bein' a hurtin from it, by golly DO IT.  Smiley
  

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