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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Fume bluing (Read 12884 times)
Mike_Hunter
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #15 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 1:48pm
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Keep in mind, there is really nothing special about fume bluing; just another way to get steel to rust.

I tend to like it for doubles, because, as I stated earlier it tends to get into all the little nooks & crannies: between the barrels & the rib, into the rib matting etc. fairly evenly without runs or pooling like you would get with at wipe on.

I really don’t like using it for HW, single shot, or Winchester barrels in general (Except the M21s), as I find the color a little too black to correctly match the Early Winchester stuff.

Got a couple of issues with the technique posted:
I probably wouldn’t put in a un temp controlled garage or eve.
Something  to consider is that the fuming box really needs to be kept at a constant temp, cool nights , warm days and you’ll start to get condensation on the barrels…really ruining the job. 

3-4 days….way too long, I envision serious pitting.  Really more than 24 hours is too much.  When I lived in Alaska (Very low humidity) and did this, 24 hours was max.  If you need more humidity, use a damp sponge in the bottom of the box.

Remember you control the amount of rusting with temperature and humidity.

Put it in a box with a clear lid, I use Plexiglas, but an aquarium or long Rubbermaid type plastic storage box will work. Put a window in to watch progression.   

“CARD OR BRUSH IT DOWN TO THE BLUE, WITH A FAIRLY STIFF MOTOR DRIVEN WIRE WHEEL”
I completely disagree with that statement, a good stiff motor driven wire brush will burn thru the rust down to the bare metal, ruining your blue job and trashing your polish.  The wire brushes I use are made for rust bluing, I think Brownells or Midway carry them, very thin wire about .002 or .003. wire thickness. The sell them in 2 or 4 rows, I like the 2 row better …much less aggressive. It won’t make much difference on round parts, but on octagon barrels or anywhere there are sharp edges, the more aggressive brush will tend to thin the blue on those edges.
  

Mike Hunter
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Mike_Hunter
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #16 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 1:49pm
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Cont:

My brushes are mounted on a pillow block arrangement, I use a standard 1750 RPM motor, but I reduce the brush speed by 50%, using pulleys. 1750 is a bit aggressive to card, I like more of a wiping motion, I’ve found that right about 8-900 RPM is pretty good.

I average 5-6 barrels a month, it kinda works for me but.. strictly my opinion…and we all know about opinions; everybody has one,
  

Mike Hunter
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frnkeore
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #17 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:01pm
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I agree with everything you say about controling the process but, what I was most curious about is the use of only Nitric Acid for the process and what that will do for color. Will it be a different color (blue)than with both acids?  And what I am very intrested in is the brown color for the one gun that I would like to "brown".

Thank you for you time and info,

Frank
  

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Mike_Hunter
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #18 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:34pm
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Frank

Don't know about only using Nitric acid...I think the mixing of the two acids casuses more fuming. Might try it, Nitric acid alone will cause things to rust.  Smiley


Not sure where I got the recipe form, but I've been using it for 20+ years.  But as stated earlier, I really don't do a whole lot of fume bluing anymore.

Most of my rust bluing is wipe on with my own formula (modification of Winchester's original formula)

The brown color...easy just don't boil the parts.
For brown parts I've had great luck with final carding and a soal in water with a little bit of baking soda.
  

Mike Hunter
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DoubleD
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #19 - Aug 21st, 2010 at 11:00pm
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Is Tom rice still alive, he has got to be as old as me!
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #20 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 9:05am
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I'm not sure if Tom is still around. I haven't seen him in years, since he closed his shop. If you'd like to know for sure or would like to contact him, I can find out.

Did you know him from High Power shooting?

Frank
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #21 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 1:04pm
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When fume bluing complex parts, like an action, breechblock, or something like that  How would you keep the acidic fumes from working inside the milled out areas?
  A barrel you can grease and plug of course.
  Maybe bluing the inside of an action might not be bad, except for the carding and de-rusting process and the chance of leaving small amounts of acidic residue to continue working.
  

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harry_eales
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #22 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 2:17pm
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 1:04pm:
When fume bluing complex parts, like an action, breechblock, or something like that  How would you keep the acidic fumes from working inside the milled out areas?
 A barrel you can grease and plug of course.
 Maybe bluing the inside of an action might not be bad, except for the carding and de-rusting process and the chance of leaving small amounts of acidic residue to continue working.


Hello Wayne,

I don't know of a 'stopper' than can be applied that is acid proof. Yes, the fumes will get into every screwhole and machine cut, however, boiling should neutralise or dilute any acid remaining. The fumes have a less detrimental effect than dipping a part into liquid acid.

Very fine steel wool wrapped around the end of 'Q Tips' will clean out holes and spatulars, plant labels etc, wrapped in the same steel wool will take care of slots and other cuts.

In any rust blueing process, rust will occur in hard to get at areas, removing it without damaging the part just another challenge to overcome.

Harry
  
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #23 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 8:00pm
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I'm having trouble finding undiluted hydrochlorlic acid (there is lots of Muratic with 31% hydrochloric) and no luck with nitric acid. Any sugestions of how or where I can get them?

Frank
  

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Chuckster
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #24 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 10:23pm
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Frank,
I have used the Muratic acid, just reduce the amount of water. Put the nitric acid into the Muratic acid, not vis versa. Don't know what I am going to do when I run out of nitric. I normally use the Niedner blue which is not as strong, but works well. Small finish nails are less likey to be coated or plated than others.
Chuck
  
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whitey hanson
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #25 - Aug 24th, 2010 at 9:20pm
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Seems like we have a problem in getting the right chemicals.?? Does anyone know of  good alternates.?? Whitey
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #26 - Aug 25th, 2010 at 4:45am
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Hello Whitey,

Getting concentrated Nitric and Hydrochloric acids is getting difficult. Some twenty years ago I could buy them in small quantities from any highstreet Chemists Shop. Today these seem to be a thing of the past and have been replaced by Pharmacies that just sell prescription and none prescription medicinal items, but not chemicals.  Cry

Your best bet would be to contact a Scientific Supplies Company that serves Universities, Research Institutes, Manufacturers etc. There should be some listed in your Yellow Pages. The downside is, they may have a minimum order size.  Undecided

Harry
  
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Re: Fume bluing
Reply #27 - Aug 25th, 2010 at 8:09am
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How well do you know the local H.S. chemistry teacher??
  
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