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My Zimmerstutzen (Read 9429 times)
feuerbixler
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #30 - Sep 18th, 2011 at 11:00am
 


Some months ago, I found an interesting article about Zimmerstutzen in the Magazine "THE AMERICAN RIFLEMAN" in an issue of 1958, September.

What the author Malcolm Rogers describes in that article, concerns to the situation of German Zimmerstutzens in the 1930's. But it doesn't cover the historical situation about all that 100 years before and sometimes he uses wrong terms. No wonder, the strange zimmerstutzen-rifle was nearly unknown in US.

Enjoy reading the article!    Wink

    Biggi.   Smiley
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feuerbixler
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #31 - Sep 21st, 2011 at 5:57pm
 

Hello to all who are interested in the old spoon-loader zimmerstutzens!

Here is another one, a very nice Bavarian spoon-loader from the 1880's. This evening I had the nice opportunity to take pics of that zimmerstutzen at a match in the shooting club.

#1 One loads the primer-cap from bottom-up and the lead-ball from above into the spoon.

#2 Insert the spoon into the hole of the barrel.

#3 Turn the spoon with the lever to the groove till it locks.

#4 The rod pushes the primer cap and throws the lead-ball out of the barrelette.

#5 While opening the action after the shot, the small hook in the barrel (which is attached to the rod) extracts the primer cap from the spoon. The shooter needs only to release the spoon out of the barrel and can load for the next shot.

     Smiley Biggi.
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kelliott
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #32 - Oct 2nd, 2011 at 1:37pm
 
Hi everyone,

Sorry I've been away so long!  Biggi, thank you so much for all your info about Zimmerstutens... we have enjoyed it thoroughly.  We don't have a spoon and my husband never saw one around his house growing up. So we will probably need to find one to shoot this gun.

I'm posting better pics.  Are they clear enough to tell you what type of ammo we need?  If not, we'll keep trying.
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #33 - Oct 3rd, 2011 at 8:10pm
 
Thanks Biggi!!  I had no idea what a "spoon loader" was, or how it functioned until your pictograph montage explained it so well.  An elegent and simple solution to loading them!!! Wink
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feuerbixler
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #34 - Oct 5th, 2011 at 4:22am
 

Hi Kate.

Thanks that you are back on the forum. Good thing you posted some better pics of that hole in the barrel where the barrelette starts.

As far as I can see, you don't need a loading spoon, because there is no "pocket-groove" for snapping-in such a loading spoon.

Your zimmerstutzen seems to be a so-called "thumb-loader". This means you have to place the primer cap with your thumb into that hole of the barrelette onto the thrust block. If you have too thick fingers to get that placed with your thumb, one would use this small "loading helper spoon" which I have shown already.

I think you need the short primer caps. But I cannot make a final statement, because I don't know how long the thrust block is. According to experience, the old zimmerstutzens work with short caps.

              Biggi.   Smiley
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feuerbixler
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #35 - Oct 7th, 2011 at 6:37am
 

Hi Kate.

I forgot to mention: I think your zimmerstutzen is a muzzle loader.

#1: Load the primer cap from behind into the barrelette.

#2: Load the leadball from the front and push it down with a brass rod.

#3: Cock the hammer, click in the rear trigger, fire with front trigger.

I think this should be the correct way to load and shoot. But I am not definetely sure, because I never shot such a zimmerstutzen.
Undecided  Roll Eyes

Attached a pic taken from an old advertising, which shows a loading rod for old zimmerstutzens.

   Biggi.   Smiley

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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #36 - Oct 10th, 2011 at 8:51pm
 
Hi Biggi,

No, thank you... for hanging in here with me and giving us so much information about this beautiful, old Zimmer that we are anxious to shoot.

With your second most recent post, we were thinking, OK, short caps, we can find that, but what size?   And we wanted to tell you that, stamped on the underside of the stock is the number "7", and underneath that is "6992".   We were hoping the "7" would tell what size lead ball we needed.   (Also, please don't forget that we have no idea what the "6992" means and are hoping you can give us a clue to that.)   Also, we are wondering what you mean by the "thrust block".   If you could clarify that term, we may be able to measure it.

Now, with your most recent post, we are thinking that muzzle-loaders usually come with a place to mount the ram-rod on the gun, so it's always with the gun.   Were the older Zimmers not made this way... with the ram-rod separte from the gun?

Please forgive our ignorance about guns in general.

Just yesterday, we had a picnic with our son and his wife and friends, a couple, and they both brought their guns... and of course, we had our guns.  There must have been 30 different varieties of guns (and a crossbow) which we all took turns shooting.   We showed off the Zimmer and everyone wished we could take turns shooting it!   We just told everyone, "We are working on it!"

Thanks for your help, Biggi, and everyone else on this forum!!!
Kate
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feuerbixler
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #37 - Oct 11th, 2011 at 7:36pm
 

Hi Kate.

I think the short ramrod was never attached to such an old Zimmerstutzen. Because it was a short loading rod with approx. 8 inches length and with a wooden ball for the palm to push in the small lead-ball.

The "thrust block" means the part where you put the primer cap in for firing. I don't know if this is the correct word for it!? Does anybody here know a better word?
Undecided  Huh

The "6992" seems to be the fabrication or barrel number. The "7" might be the lead ball size. But please note: There are two different kinds of numbers for the lead balls. The "old" one from approx. pre-1900 and the "new" one from after-1900. They had a re-numbering.

Please refer to the table above to check the ball-numbers. The ball number size is given in millimeters. The No. 7 caliber means 4.3 millimeters.

Greetings from Bavaria!

    Biggi.   Smiley
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feuerbixler
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #38 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 6:51pm
 



Hi Mrs. Kate! Hope you will come back to your thread.

Some news for loading your neat old zimmerstutzen. I found somebody with a rifle loading system similar to yours. Maybe you can load the rifle like follows:

#1 Use short caps and the matching lead ball. Drop the ball into the cap.

#2 Slide the cap into the loading spoon.

#3 Place the cap + ball into the thrust bearing / thrust block of the barrelette.

#4 Slide it into the hole.

#5 Turn the loading spoon for 180°

#6 Press the cap + ball into the hole with the backside of the spoon.

It is an old Hahn-Spanner Zimmerstutzen of the gun-maker "Baader & Son Munich" from approx. 1870's.

    Biggi from Bavaria.   Smiley
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #39 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:08pm
 
Biggi, that primer-holder is even more elegently simple than the spoon-loader.  Very impressive, and easily made if the original one was lost. Grin
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #40 - Oct 19th, 2011 at 8:20pm
 

Hhhhmmm, I really don't know, if they had in the old days a kind of loading spoon or primer holder for those zimmerstutzens. I have never seen an "original old one". These are most of the time reproductions.

These zimmerstutzens are called "thumb-loaders", because normally one puts the primer cap with the thumb into the thrust bearing.

Only if the shooter had big fingers like sausages, he would have needed such a spoon-holder.  Wink  Grin

                     Biggi.   Smiley
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #41 - Oct 20th, 2011 at 8:03pm
 
Hard to believe that none of the old, pre-1900 shooters had fingers like sausages--I know I do.  So perhaps some old time gunsmith came up with a primer holder to help the fat-fingered amongst us load a zimmerstutzen. Roll Eyes
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #42 - Oct 24th, 2011 at 6:33pm
 


Recently we had a nice zimmerstutzen match in Upper-Bavaria. It was a outdoor match in the bright autumn sun in the old schuetzen-style.

The honor target was donated by a guy who had his birthday, the first prize was an original old Stiegele-zimmerstutzen. Everybody wanted to win that zimmerstutzen, for sure.

But, believe it or not! The winner was older than the prize! Our oldest shooter with his 93 years won with the best bull's eye that zimmerstutzen.
Now he has something for his life!  Wink

   Biggi.   Cheesy

The picture shows on the left the winner, in the middle the donator and on the right the 1st president. As you can see, the 93 years old winner has no sausage-fingers!
Grin  Grin  Grin
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #43 - Oct 24th, 2011 at 6:38pm
 
Ninety three and still shooting offhand, and winning.  Hmm?   Sort of makes our 50 to 70 year old BR shooters look like wimps Biggi.

Congratulations to that strong old man!

     Joe.   Smiley
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feuerbixler
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Re: My Zimmerstutzen
Reply #44 - Oct 24th, 2011 at 6:41pm
 

He shoots sitting on a stool. But this is allowed for the real old guys. And he is one of the best shooters who are shooting from sitting on a stool. He won the Bavarian championships recently!

But he drives alone with his sport-mercedes to the matches, has a nice day with the friends and some beer, and he is a really nice old guy!

           Biggi.   Smiley
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