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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

HM Pope scope mounts
Sep 23rd, 2007 at 8:52pm
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This is a longshot, but maybe somebody can assist me. I'm looking for pictures of H.M. Pope scope mounts and bases. I have what I'm fairly certian are a set of Pope's scope mounts and bases on my latest Ballard schuetzen rifle, and I'd sure appreciate some direction towards where to look at any pictures of these critters.-Vall
  
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Quarter_Bore
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Re:  HM Pope scope mounts
Reply #1 - Sep 23rd, 2007 at 10:22pm
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If you have those scalloped cuts in the top of your barrel, that is a good sign that you have pope mounts.
  
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stbryson
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Re:  HM Pope scope mounts
Reply #2 - Sep 23rd, 2007 at 10:46pm
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Hello marlinguy,

In the book, The Story of Pope's Barrels, by Ray Smith, there are drawings of the Pope front and rear mounts, along with a drawing of the base of the mount.  These are found on page 156.

In the book, Respectfully yours, H.M. Pope, by Gerald Kelver, there is a photograph of a Pope rear mount on page 225.

Take care,

Steve Bryson
  

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FITZ
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Re:  HM Pope scope mounts
Reply #3 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 6:01pm
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Marlinguy, if you have seperate bases that are screw mounted to the barrel they are not Pope Mounts. Pope mounts utilised a scallop Dovetail cut directly into the barrel. The Scope mounts themselves were split at the bottom with a top hinge and when removed from the Rifle were all floppy. In fact the Scope would come or fall right out of the mounts. You may have Niedner Mounts. They utilised a base that was srew mounted to the barrel. They also have a Tapered Dovetail shape from small to large that was self tightening in recoil. Most of these I have seen used Winchester A-5 or Lyman 5-A mounts modified on the bottom by machining off the original dovetail base and mounting a base that was cut for a female Tapered Dovetail to match the block on the Barrel. Popes plan was to lower the scope hieght closer to the Iron sight sight plane so that the eye lined on the Scope  better on Rifles stocked for Iron sights. HTH, Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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marlinguy
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Re:  HM Pope scope mounts
Reply #4 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 6:55pm
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Fitz, are you sure about this info? I have a Pope catalog, and he lists bases for sale to fit his mounts, if the customer doesn't want to send him the barrel to have the scallops cut.
Your description of these mounts is exactly like the ones I own. The bases are scalloped bases, with rounded ends where the screws mount them.
I'll try to take a couple pictures, and post them here.-Vall
« Last Edit: Sep 24th, 2007 at 7:19pm by marlinguy »  
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marlinguy
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Re:  HM Pope scope mounts
Reply #5 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 7:18pm
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Here are the pictures of the mounts, and the bases. They appear to be the same as the drawings in my Pope catalog, but since he didn't have photos, it's hard to be 100% positive.-Vall

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FITZ
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Re:  HM Pope scope mounts
Reply #6 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 5:01pm
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Marlinguy, you are right on. Those are Pope Mounts. I was not aware he offered Screw on bases for his Mounts. Have only seen the Rifles with the Scallop Cut directly into the barrel. What is the condition of those you have? They appear to be original but about 4 years ago Gary Quinlan had a small quantity or reproductions made up. (Very Pricey) And of course they would be better finished. I bought a Parts Unknown Pope Tang sight and it IS identical but is much better finished than my original Pope Sight.
I have a Hartford Pope Ballard stored here that has two sets of Scallop cuts. One set is for standard length scopes such as A-5 Winchester or Lyman 5-A or the Lyman Targetspots. The other set is for a full length scope. All in all they kind of screw up the Rifles appearance. But back then Shooters were more concerned with functionality. Well looks like you have fallen into a neat piece of History. Congradulations on your find! Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re:  HM Pope scope mounts
Reply #7 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 7:25pm
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Thank you Fitz! The mounts are pretty much brown patina, but bases being protected under the mounts are in much better shape. I need to work on the elevation adjustment, as it's quite stiff, but the windage works as designed.
I bought this gun at a very reasonable price, and keep finding little things on it that tell me it was a shooter's gun, and very nicely put together with goo quality parts.
This is probably the only way I'll ever own anything made by H M Pope, as it usually goes well beyond my budget.-Vall
  
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FITZ
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Re:  HM Pope scope mounts
Reply #8 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 8:43pm
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Marlinguy, YEA! way beyond my pocketbook now. There was a time when I could afford them. Mostly when they were sold by a shooter to a shooter. I have ended up with two. One is a Hartford 38-55 Hiwall Schuetzen with all the bells and whistles. The other is a Jersey City Hiwall in .25 Niedner Krag. It was someones Woodchuck Rifle. Turned down sharply Pistol Grip and Modern High comb stock, shotgun butt. It does however have really fine wide spaced double set triggers reworked by Pope and they are really fine. I have not shot it much but it is a tackdriver. 39 grs 3031 behind a Remington factory 100 gr bullet 8 shots went into a group one caliber wide and just little over 1/2" long vertically at 200 yds from bench. I do however have a Buddy that is heavy into Pope rifles and when he gets one in some state of screwed up it comes to me to fix or straighten out. Right now I have a Stevens Pope, a Hartford Pope ballerd, a Schoyen Hiwall, and another Harford Pope Ballard. Also have a Zischang Borchardt of my own in 38-55. These are all precious and in todays market right out of sight.  But I DO SHOOT them. Well enough for now, enjoy. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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