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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80 (Read 34592 times)
Gone Fly Fishing
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Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Apr 4th, 2010 at 4:05pm
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   One of the most skilled single shot gun designers in Great Britain was Daniel Frazer.  The Frazer patented falling block internal hammer single shot action was considered equal to or superior to the other British single shot actions of that period.

I am interested in communicating with anyone who is either collecting and/or shooting the Frazer falling block rifle/s for research purposes.

My interests are mostly historical in nature, however, future acquisitions of Fraser examples is conceivable.

Thank you,

Creedmoormatch
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #1 - Apr 4th, 2010 at 5:05pm
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The only thing I have is just a great hankering of owning one of those falling block rifles/actions - but I'm afraid it will never come to that...  That action is indeed a marvel both in design and execution.
  
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Mike Gordon
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #2 - Apr 6th, 2010 at 10:45am
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I saw an early Fraser at a gun show in New York State last year and had a chance to examine it closely.  It looked like one of the plain guns shown in Kirton's book that had been sold in Canada. A bit rough  and the price of several thousand dollars was a bit high for me.  It closely resembled a Fraser that had been for sale on Joe Salter's website a few years ago.  
  
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bouldersmith
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #3 - Apr 6th, 2010 at 10:52am
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I have a medium action I will be building up into a light sporter in 6.5x54R the dutch mannlicher round. They are really beautiful actions and a great design in my mind. I too would like to know more about them. It sure would be nice if Mr. Winfer would pen a volume on them.
            Steve
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #4 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 4:34am
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Mike,
You probably saw the Italian copy marketed as Fraser - by no means an original, in design or execution.  That one was pretty ugly indeed..
  
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #5 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 10:41am
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    Hi Martini Belgian ;

    I have never seen, nor heard of, an Italian " knock off " of the sacred Fraser action.  .   .   . it is almost, if not, a contradiction of terms.

     Steve ; 

I am glad to hear of your interest in the Fraser action.  I would be happy to share the results of my project as they develop.  I have family members in the U.K. who will be assisting me in the ensuing months, so I'm looking forward to receiving their data.

  Creedmoormatch
  
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Mike Gordon
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #6 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 10:57am
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The small bore (.22 LR & .22 Hornet only) Italian made under lever single shot marked "Daniel Fraser"  was written up by Frank deHass in Rifle magazine sometime in the early 1990s. deHass found it to be interesting, but mostly junk.

The Fraser I saw last year was an honest to goodness Fraser, not very different from the rifle pictured on page 221 of Jonathan Kirton's book.  Considering how rare real Frasers are, the sellers price of several thousand dollars (I don't remember the exact price.) was proabably quite reasonable.

With all this talk about Frasers lets not forget that the Ruger No 1 (and No 3) are basically the Fraser action turned into an underlever.
  
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Gone Fly Fishing
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #7 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 4:26pm
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Mike Gordon wrote on Apr 7th, 2010 at 10:57am:
With all this talk about Frasers lets not forget that the Ruger No 1 (and No 3) are basically the Fraser action turned into an underlever.


Mike,  How could I ever forget that Mr. William Roger was inspired by the British supreme falling block action that inspired him to move to the No. 1 design for his own when the American shooter hadn't a clue or a desire for anything other than a bolt action repeater.

Creedmoormatch
  
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hst
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #8 - Apr 8th, 2010 at 1:05am
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Gentlemens:

Do you think there would be a market for a faithful reproduction of the original large Fraser action?


Glenn
  
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harry_eales
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Aw heck, vegetable stew,
AGAIN.

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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #9 - Apr 8th, 2010 at 3:36am
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hst wrote on Apr 8th, 2010 at 1:05am:
Gentlemens:

Do you think there would be a market for a faithful reproduction of the original large Fraser action?

Glenn


Hello Glenn,

I think there would be a market but not a large one, a few hundred perhaps at best. The problem is, or would be cost. It is a complicated action and although EDM and CNC machines would be of great assistance, there are a lot of oddly shaped parts to be made.

I've only ever seen one of these actions stripped down and it was built like a Swiss Watch, and as good as any of the 'London Quality' gunmakers products.

If built exactly like the original, I doubt if you would get any change out of US$ 2,000.00 for the action and stockbolt. I include the latter part because it's not a straight foreward item but a complex part, which has to be 'timed' in order for the safety catch and rear tang screw (which pass through the stockbolt), to be fitted correctly.

The Fraser is possibly the most complex single shot action ever produced. Nothing is simple about the shape of the great majority of parts, and thus it does not lend itself to ease of production. But, to simplify the design would defeat the object, it wouldn't be a Fraser Action at all, but a cheaper 'look alike'.

Harry

« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2010 at 3:43am by harry_eales »  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #10 - Apr 8th, 2010 at 3:50am
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Harry,

I would disagree - there's some things on the original action that could be omitted without anyone ever noticing (like - I believe - the half-cock option) without ever compromising the design itself.

I do believe someone in the US once made some (modified) Fraser replica's a few years ago.  Some minor changes were made, but I do believe it wasn't exactly cheap though...
  
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #11 - Apr 8th, 2010 at 7:54am
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hst wrote on Apr 8th, 2010 at 1:05am:
G

Do you think there would be a market for a faithful reproduction of the original large Fraser action?


Glenn


I am keenly aware that the present day market would have little or no appreciation for any thing even close to an exact copy of the D. Fraser & Co. falling block action.   Those of us who are the exception to the masses have the ability to locate and pay the tariff for an original and a great appreciation for a 19th Century work of great genius.

The Italian made copies of Sharps rifles and many others are for the masses and fit the bill for those folks to a tee.  It's really hard to imagine an Italian made copy of the Fraser ever coming to fruition.  Who would purchase them ?

When was the last time you saw a Swiss made pocket watch in a retail establishment ? 

Creedmoormatch
  
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #12 - Apr 8th, 2010 at 8:21am
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harry_eales wrote on Apr 8th, 2010 at 3:36am:
[quote author=495255210 link=1270411530/8#8 date=1270703136]
The Fraser is possibly the most complex single shot action ever produced. Nothing is simple about the shape of the great majority of parts, and thus it does not lend itself to ease of production. But, to simplify the design would defeat the object, it wouldn't be a Fraser Action at all, but a cheaper 'look alike'.



       Well put Harry !   I agree wholeheartedly,  and will remember to buy you a pint of the best Larger when I see you next.

Creedmoormatch
  
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #13 - Apr 8th, 2010 at 8:42am
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Creedmoormatch wrote above :

"I am interested in communicating with anyone who is either collecting and/or shooting the Frazer falling block rifle/s for research purposes.

My interests are mostly historical in nature, however, future acquisitions of Fraser examples is conceivable.

Thank you,

Creedmoormatch " [/quote]


Why do people always want to make cheap "knock off" copies of quality merchandise ?  I'm a historian expressing an interest in communicating with knowledgeable collectors of fine antique firearms, and it turns into a "let make a copy of it and sell it ".

Same thing with my Rolex watch, everybody wants one even if theirs is a chrome plated over pot metal case and made in China.  Is there no authenticity any more ?  Where have all the connoisseurs gone to ?

Creedmoormatch
« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2010 at 8:47am by Gone Fly Fishing »  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Daniel Fraser & Co. c.1870-80
Reply #14 - Apr 8th, 2010 at 8:55am
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The Fraser would be a good thing - but for a Brit action having all the good features, very simple, few parts, and visually attractive too, take a look at the Field falling block - the bottom drawing:
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Very fast, light, center-hung hammer, very solid, pretty simple to make and most certainly not ugly....  Not the precision and complexity of a Fraser, but it would probably have a bigger market.  Maybe the only change to make is to use 2 springs instead of the mainspring also being used as trigger return spring.  Maybe also add a stockbolt fixture to improve it.  
Also, that would probably be an action I could afford  Embarrassed  And also a good base for a nice target rifle - Greener made target rifles on these actions.
  
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