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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions (Read 14622 times)
bohemianway
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WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Jan 27th, 2014 at 4:50pm
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WTF (Want to find) complete chamber or case dimension for 30-30 Wesson. I have the base, rim dia, length, but it would be useful to have the neck dimensions and taper dimensions to make a reamer. I have seen here information on smaller neck sizes for allowing tight fit and neck reaming.

Or, if someone has a used reamer to sell or rent.

Thank you,
Charles
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #1 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:07am
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Donnelly's Handbook of Cartridge Conversions lists the neck diameter at .329" and the body angle as .907 deg/side. It lists the 357 Max as the cartridge from which to make it. You need to measure your brass thickness to determine the actual neck diameter you need for your bullet.
  
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bohemianway
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #2 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:13pm
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Unfortunately the 0.907 degrees per side does not work. It leaves a neck length of 0.060". For a guessed neck length of 0.5" and assumed .380" base and .330" neck gives a single side angle of 1.268 degrees.

Maybe someone can give suggestions on the range of neck lengths would make a great BS and fixed cartridge.

Thank you,
Charles
  
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #3 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:30pm
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Maybe I'm missing something but...
the .30-30 wesson is a straight case so it has no neck length.
I would think that with the base D. of .380 inch, the neck D. to fit your intended bullet, and the case length of 1.66 inch, it would be a matter of calculating the taper needed.
BTW, the loaded length is 2.50 inch. That should help with the design of the reamer as well.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #4 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:34pm
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I would suggest a neck of .320, that gives you one caliber with a little extra to trim or not.

Remember on your taper that you have end it at .200 forward of the case base. That area is solid and won't take a taper. If you have a .330 neck and a .376 case head, you need a included taper per inch (TPI) of .042 or 1.203 deg. per side over a distance of 1.11, from the solid case head to the start of the neck.

The 357 Max has a .010 neck thickness and I make my necks .330 for a .310 ID before firing, if your chamber neck is .330, after firing it will be .329, a perfect fit for a .309/.310 bullet.

This is a cartridge that I've wanted to use for about 3 years and that is the design that I would have made if I do one.

Frank
« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:58pm by frnkeore »  

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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #5 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:39pm
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Actually the case we are talking about would be the 30/40 Wesson, it's 1.63 long.

While true that the case would be considered a straight taper, in reality it has to have a cylindrical neck to hold the bullet. You can't size the case to hold the bullet w/o that.

Frank
  

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J Louis
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #6 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 2:47pm
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The 30-30 Wesson used a large rifle primer so the 357
Maximum would not replicate the original design.

From Cartridges Of The World
Case type - Tapered
Bullet dia. - .308"
Neck dia. - .329"
Base dia. - .380"
Rim dia. - .440"
Case length - 1.66"
C.O.L. - 2.50"
Twist - 12"
Primer - Large
  
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frnkeore
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #7 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 3:11pm
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J Louis wrote on Jan 28th, 2014 at 2:47pm:
The 30-30 Wesson used a large rifle primer so the 357
Maximum would not replicate the original design.

From Cartridges Of The World
Case type - Tapered
Bullet dia. - .308"
Neck dia. - .329"
Base dia. - .380"
Rim dia. - .440"
Case length - 1.66"
C.O.L. - 2.50"
Twist - 12"
Primer - Large


Are you saying that it would not be legal as a tradition cartridge because it uses a LRP?

Frank
  

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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #8 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 3:34pm
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That is good question Frank and one for the ASSRA Schuetzen Meister to address not me and probably should be looked into if meeting the traditional class is also one of the goals. I was simply pointing out that the use of the Max. case would not be the correct choice for duplicating the original and I do not believe you could call it as such. It would simply be another new cartridge based off of the Max. case. We had a couple of our top competitors jump on the 30-30 Wesson for competitive use quite some time back and really gave them a run for the money but they just didn't pan out and I don't remember the parent case they were using to make their brass.

JLouis
  
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frnkeore
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #9 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 3:45pm
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It might be interesting call and then if ruled against, it would also eliminate the use of small rifle primers in 32/40's and 38/50 Ballards or disallow the use of 30 American or small primer RMC cases in both those cartridges.

I've been using (as well as others) 30 American case for a very long time in both my 32/40's and 32/35's.

Frank

  

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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #10 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:01pm
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This is a great discussion! The intent would be for traditional otherwise I would simply ream it as a 327 Federal magnum and be done with it. That begs the question on how close does the dimensions have to be to be "traditional"? If they get out the micrometer I'd bet a high percentage of the "traditional" rifles out there would fail. Most of my originals have generous chambers nothing like the competition rifles of today.
  
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #11 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:16pm
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Charles, a reference for over 1400 caliber dimensions ...
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Your test in the morning ... what are the dimensions for Record No 118?  Wink
  

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John
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bohemianway
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #12 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 5:32pm
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That is still the information we already have but does not help in the location of the transition from neck to taper or taper angle to draw the complete cartridge.
  
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #13 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 5:44pm
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Frank non-traditional actions used to build Tradional Rifles use to qualify for the first Coors Matches but that no longer holds true so why should there be an exception for the cartridges? In regards to minor variations in chambers I could not imagine Pope, Schoyen, Peterson, Zischang and all the then different current manufactures all being exactly the same in regards to their Schuetzen target rifles.

JLouis
  
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Re: WTF 30-30 Wesson dimensions
Reply #14 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 9:34pm
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We are talking apples and oranges here, John. Brass is a consumable rifles are forever. I don't understand your logic here. Brass cand conform quite a bit to  chambers that are a little different and as a matter of fact, I've never heard of a "brass" rule, is there such a thing?

Are my 30/40 Krag case that I swage to 32/40 legal? Are my 30 American case legal in 32/40 and 32/35? Are lathe turned or reduced capacity RMC cases legal? Are stortened 9.3x 74R or 35 Winchester cases legal for 40/63 Ballard? And last, if I open the 357 Max primer pockets to LRP size, will that then make them legal?

The Coors matches (god bless them) were never part of the ASSRA. ISSA may be a off shoot of Coors but, now a days, not really.  Since Coors ISSA and ASSRA has tried to make rules conform as best they can.

That said, you might be better off going to ISSA and trying to get them to allow FIX actions in the ISSA Traditional class.

Frank
  

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