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Rick Fischer
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Dating Stevens Model 44
Jun 8th, 2014 at 7:41am
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I have a Model 44, half round barrel, "J Stevens A&T Co.... Apr.17.94", serial number 46XXX.  Any ideas when this was made?  I  understand a lot of Stevens records are gone.  Is there a reliable source for date of manufacture info?
  
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uscra112
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #1 - Jun 8th, 2014 at 9:53am
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All of the factory records were burned by Westinghouse right after WW1, to avoid having them become evidence a Congressional inquiry. 

By my own survey, which I've only just started, a 46xxx  s/n would put it somewhere in the mid to late '20s.  I think.  Manufacture of the plain Model 44 ended in about 1932, (according to Frank deHaas).   The highest s/n I've seen on a .25-20, (so far) is 52xxx.   

It's possible to date some Model 44s a little closer, when they are in the 1894 to 1903 area, due to feature changes which can be correlated to dated catalogs.  Catalogs are the only signposts we have, unless somebody has an original sales receipt with date, or some other such document.

It's also pretty certain that anything in a caliber bigger than .32-20 is pre-1903. In that year they started with the Model 44 1/2, and dropped the 44 action for everything but .22LR, .25 Stevens, .32 Long RF, .25-20, .32-20, and maybe .25-21 on special order.

It seems to me that there were no obvious feature changes in run-of-the-bog Model 44s after 1903, but I haven't looked very hard at the post-WW1 (i.e. Savage ownership) period.

Model 414, which used the 44 action, was 1912 to 1932.   The Model 417, which was .22LR only and had a plain round barrel and other features, started in 1933, when the 414 was discontinued, and ran until 1947.   I have read that serial numbers of those get into the 60xxx range.  Never seen one to verify, though. 

I'm open to correction on any statement I've made, so fire away.....

Phil W.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #2 - Jun 8th, 2014 at 12:19pm
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Phil, FWIW, the serial of my 414 is 78xxx.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #3 - Jun 8th, 2014 at 3:17pm
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Thanks, I'll add that to the database.  Unless Stevens did some numbershuffling, that pushes  Rick's  back to early 20's. Maybe.

« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2014 at 3:28pm by uscra112 »  
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slumlord44
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #4 - Jun 8th, 2014 at 8:27pm
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The 417 was available in .22 short on special order. Also in .22 Hornet for a brief time. The 417 1/2 was in addition available in .25 Stevens and .22 WRF. I have a 417 1/2 in .22 Hornet. The 418 and the  418 1/2 was available in the same chambering's as the 417 and 417 1/2 with the exception of the .22 Hornet. I have a 418 1/2 in .22 Short and .25 Stevens. I have never seen a 417 1/2 in .22 Short, .25 Stevens, or .22 WRF. I am still looking for these. Dating the Stevens is pretty much impossible to pin down any closer than some year ranges as stated earlier. Makes it interesting and sometimes frustrating. The source of my information is the 1933 Stevens catalog and my personal collection.
  
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peterson2520ss
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #5 - Jun 8th, 2014 at 8:33pm
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I have been doing the same o serial numbers.  From my records the 78xxx number should be a Savage marked rifle.

You can also list the 25-25 as made in the 6 o'clock
extractor guns. I have serial number 3033x.

Det
  
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uscra112
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #6 - Jun 8th, 2014 at 11:00pm
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There's yet another column for the matrix.  Knowing the earliest s/n that has the Savage marking might tell us about dates.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #7 - Jun 8th, 2014 at 11:18pm
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Just added this one to the survey.   

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Go take a look, but cover your keyboard first, to keep the drool off it.
  
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BP
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #8 - Jun 8th, 2014 at 11:48pm
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uscra112 wrote on Jun 8th, 2014 at 11:18pm:
Just added this one to the survey.   

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Go take a look, but cover your keyboard first, to keep the drool off it.

Anyone else see what appears to be dovetail adapters mounted into the barrel dovetails that the scope rings are then dovetailed into?

  

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uscra112
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #9 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:07am
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Yes, that's the way those scopes were mounted from the factory.   Note that there is no dovetail where the ordinary rear sight would have been.  They specifically say in one of my catalogs that the normal dovetail will be omitted when the scope is specified.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #10 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:07am
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Here is another one that I found today...I thought it was the same rifle for a minute...... Shocked I'd like to have this one too!
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #11 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:39am
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Det, mine has no sign of Savage markings on it, just Stevens on the action and J. Stevens Arms Co. on the barrel.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #12 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:44am
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As I understand it, the Savage mark was just a small oval with the letters svg inside it.  On the side of the frame. 

That said, none of my post WW1 44s have it.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #13 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:51am
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uscra112 wrote on Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:07am:
Yes, that's the way those scopes were mounted from the factory.   Note that there is no dovetail where the ordinary rear sight would have been.  They specifically say in one of my catalogs that the normal dovetail will be omitted when the scope is specified.    

I have seen the dovetail cut into the barrel just in front of the receiver for the rear ring itself to dovetail into, but hadn't encountered the rear barrel dovetail purposely cut larger than the dovetail size already existing on the rear ring itself. Seems strange to remove more metal than necessary, which then requires an adapter to "fill the gap", so to speak. From what I've encountered, for the front dovetail, the dovetail cut on the front ring was cut sized to fit directly into the existing large Steven's size front dovetail.
Always something new to see.

  

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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #14 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:53am
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Is it me or does the checkering look too coarse for factory checkering? I have a 44 in .25-25, 6 o'clock extractor, serial #361XX if this helps any. Also have a 414, #784XX and one #672XX. My 417 1/2 .22 Hornet is #1XX. 417-1 .22 #4XX, 417 1/2 #3XX, 417 1/2 .22 #24XX, 418 1/2 .25 Stevens #G4XX, 418 .22 Long Rifle #H9XX, 418 1/2 .22 Short #21  H1X. No idea what the letter prefix means and the on the last one the 21 is done with a different stamp than the H1X and the 21 is in front of the front tang screw and the H1X is behind it and that stamping is similar to the other two. The 21 is definitely from a different stamp and much more distinct. I haven't got a clue on these unless they are assembly #s like they used on the Favorites. I have more if needed but would prefer to pass any additional serial # info by PM.
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2014 at 1:22am by slumlord44 »  
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uscra112
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #15 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 1:10am
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I thought so too - that the checkering doesn't look right.  But I'm less than expert on that subject. 

According to one source, they made so many Favorites that the s/n would have been too long, so they started using a new letter periodically.    418's are supposedly on the Favorite frame. 

So, 417's started a new number sequence, it would seem, but 414's continued as from the beginning.   Since we know (I think) that the 414 ceased production in 1932, that puts an upper bound on that s/n sequence.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #16 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 1:45am
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Just looked at my 1933 Catalog reprint and the 414 is not there which confirms your statement. The 418 is on a Favorite frame but slightly larger. The barrel is not threaded into the action like the 44 but just a slip fit. They are accurate in spite of this. I am thinking they used the Favorite numbering system. Running out of numbers may or may not be what happened. Would have to check my collection but don't recall seeing any 4 or 5 digit numbers, usually a letter and 3 numbers.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #17 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 10:15am
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The checkering on that 44 is not only too coarse, but very amateur. Nothing that poorly checkered would have ever gone out the door at Stevens. It may well be Stevens wood that someone added checkering to at some later date. A lot of Stevens single shots were sans checkering, so maybe someone wanted it added to make it "special".
  

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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #18 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:05pm
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Just to add to the Stevens 44 action information:

My Stevens Model 47 Range rifle is a 28-30 with a central extractor.  SN is about 20200.  That puts the date of manufacture in the 1900-1903 period.  This rifle has the dovetail near the receiver.  Before I got the rifle (1967), someone put a folding buckhorn into that slot.  Now that I have learned something new (a common occurrence on this Forum), I have to put a long scope on the rifle.  More $$$.

Another 47 is the 25-20 Stevens that I described in the thread about the .25 Hornet.  This has a #3 barrel with a .251 groove diameter and a 17" twist.  That is a rimfire barrel installed on a 44 centerfire action (by Stevens), the SN on the barrel matches the SN on the tang and the 25-20 caliber stamp is definitely Stevens.  SN is about 23000.  My thoughts about this rifle is that this is what you got if you did not buy a Stevens-Pope. My guess as to year is about 1905.

A Plain Jane Model 44 in .25-20 Stevens has a SN about 48000.  I have always thought this was a post-WW1 rifle, maybe from the 1920s.  The wood is of a much lower quality than either of my 47s.

No checkering on any of these rifles.

Slumlord44, is the 44 centerfire rifle listed in your 1933 catalog?
  
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Rick Fischer
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #19 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 12:50pm
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Phil W.

Thanks for the reply.  I thought that a barrel branded as mine would come from a gun prior to the sale to Savage in 1920.  The only marks on the receiver is the serial number on the bottom tang. No oval with svg anywhere I can see.

BTW, the barrel has been sleeved.  I assume that is not factory original, and diminishes its value.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #20 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 1:01pm
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I have two 44's left. One is a DST 44/45, 6 o'clock extractor #18,040 that was originally a 32/40, trigger block action (soon to be a 22rf). The other is my very first SS, a beautiful original 32/40, trigger block with a 7 o'clock extractor, #3 barrel, #10,551.

What is the feeling that the 107 model serial numbers continued on into the 44 numbers?

Frank
  

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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #21 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 4:58pm
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frnkeore wrote on Jun 9th, 2014 at 1:01pm:
What is the feeling that the 107 model serial numbers continued on into the 44 numbers?

Frank


Grant  thought so.  He wrote that that the New Ideal 107/08/09 series started at about 2000, and the Model 44 at 3000.   I'm assuming that too until something upsets that applecart.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #22 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 5:17pm
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A little summary so far:
Highest number on my list with side extractor is 16260 - Gunbroker  415163717
Lowest number seen to date with centre extractor is 18040 - a model 45 DST owned by frankeore

Grant wrote that  the center extractor started in 1901.

Highest number seen with screw pivots is 14542  - was on Gunbroker.
Lowest number seen with two-piece bolts is 15329 - was on Gunbroker.
In the 1903 catalog they tout the new design, so it must have been implemented between the 1900 catalog publication and 1903. 

According to catalogs, no centerfire Model 44 actions after 1903, except .25-20 and .32-20     Also from 1903 on the Models 45, 47, and up were on the 44 1/2 action, so any such on a 44 action must be 1903 or earlier. 

Highest 44 action in a large centerfire caliber is 25423 - GunBroker 407393445 - a .32-40

Highest centerfire action to date is 52341, a .25-20, Gunbroker  410040824
Highest centerfire caliber barrel is 61674, .25 caliber in my collection.
Highest Model 44 rimfire to date is 90039 - Gunbroker # 421669982         

1929 catalog does not mention [i]any[/i] centerfire calibers for the Model 44, only .22/.25/.32 rimfires.

All Model 44 style actions discontinued in 1932.  Except model 417 which seems to have a new s/n series.
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #23 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 6:09pm
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Quote:
Lowest number found to date with centre extractor is 20200


My 44/45 DST is 18,040 with the 6 o'clock, center extractor. It may have been, orginally ordered for a teen boy or a woman, as it had the #2 Schuetzen butt plate and a #2 barrel.

Frank
  

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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #24 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 6:25pm
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Thanks Frank.   I've updated the summary post
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #25 - Jun 9th, 2014 at 9:59pm
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There is a 414 currently on Gunbroker #90039. Two of them listed. They have been re listed a time or two.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #26 - Jun 10th, 2014 at 7:23am
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Wow!   I had not even thought to search for 414s.  And that one pushes the upper bound way, way up.  Got all four from GB into the database as of 7:30 this AM. 
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #27 - Jun 10th, 2014 at 10:02am
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It is time to add my ideas.
1) Grant was right all swinging block Stevens large frames are in one serial number run.
what my notes show is as follows
Side plate actions low serial 41 high 1257
100 actions         low 2023   high 2629
44 w/ one piece bolt and 7 o'clock extractor
low 3267  high 14842
44 w/ two piece bolt and 7 o'clock extractor
low 15329 high 16269
44 w/ two piece bolt and 6 o'clock extractor
low 17108 high 62644
44 w trade mark stamped reciever and change to case colors low 71245 high

My thinking is that the trade marked reciever and change in case color was the start of the Savage production.

Det
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #28 - Jun 10th, 2014 at 12:07pm
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All that needs to be added then is lowest number with a coil spring. Somewhere in the low 60s?
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #29 - Jun 10th, 2014 at 1:20pm
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number 62644 is a coil spring.

Det
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #30 - Jun 10th, 2014 at 6:47pm
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I have Stevens Walnut Hill 44 frame, in .22LR, with 32" #3 weight half octagon barrel, engraved and DST, 6 o'clock firing pin. Pretty close to Frank's in #18137.
  

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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #31 - Jun 10th, 2014 at 8:43pm
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Interesting. I was just looking at the 1912 catalog. By then the Walnut Hill was on a 44 1/2 action and SSTs and DSTs were no longer available for 44s. Barrels were available up to 34 inches and in .25 or larger you could get a smokeless powder barrel for $3 extra and in No 2 or 3 weight only, a nickel steel barrel for $6 extra. Wonder if these barrels were marked differently?
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #32 - Jun 11th, 2014 at 7:14am
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My small frame side plate has a serial number of 2661. That is the only number to be found. it is stamped on the front of the action hidden by the fore arm. it is stamped on both the frame and the side plate.
Bill
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #33 - Jun 11th, 2014 at 8:09pm
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Are you looking for sideplate info? Large frame or small frame or both?
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #34 - Jun 12th, 2014 at 11:53am
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I think when one is accumulating serial number info on a maker who's records are gone, you need to be careful. Some general things will hold true, and often can come to some "general"" conclusions that apply to most guns. But like many of the old gun makers, Stevens continued to assemble some 44 frames after the catalog dropped that model. They didn't just melt down all those 44 parts once they stopped cataloging the model.
You'll also find an occasional gun with odd features for the serial number range, as it was not uncommon for a gun maker to find parts in a corner of the factory and assemble them into later guns. The idea back then was to make money, and tossing new old parts was taboo if they could be incorporated into use and save money.
  

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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #35 - Jun 12th, 2014 at 6:45pm
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Texasmac posted a reference that led to a Model 47 with a SN of 26140, which the seller claimed was made in 1910.  Any ideas as to why the seller was certain the year was 1910?  WAG?  My guess would be a few years earlier.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #36 - Jun 13th, 2014 at 7:00am
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waterman wrote on Jun 12th, 2014 at 6:45pm:
Texasmac posted a reference that led to a Model 47 with a SN of 26140, which the seller claimed was made in 1910.  Any ideas as to why the seller was certain the year was 1910?  WAG?  My guess would be a few years earlier.


I'd only accept that claim if there was an original sales receipt.  From what we've accumulated so far the seller can't be proven wrong, but nothing so far is even remotely like proof that he's right.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #37 - Jun 16th, 2014 at 1:39am
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I have my spreadsheet assembled.  About 40 listed so far. If anyone wants a copy, P/M me with a direct email address, (or tell me how to do attachments using the forum email).

BTW I turned up one for sale last night that does have what is claimed to be the original sales receipt, dated 1899.
  
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Rick Fischer
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #38 - Jun 17th, 2014 at 5:41am
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The attached picture shows the mainspring on my 46xxx Model 44.  Wisner's has two mainsprings listed.  Early, no hole, same as 1889 Favorite, and Intermediate, screw hole, same as 1894 Favorite.  My spring has no hole.

I'm not familiar with Favorites.  Is the 1889 and 1894 a year, or model number, or?

Is that arrangement on my gun original?  It seems to work, but it isn't the way I would design a gun.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #39 - Jun 17th, 2014 at 6:20am
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Yes, so far as I know that's original.  None of mine have a spring with a hole, and that includes my 1894 Model 108.

Favorite model numbers are two digits, 17, 18, 20 for the smoothbore version, etc.    Those 4 digit numbers that are so often referredeto are dates of introduction for new versions.  As I get it, there are 1889s, then 1894, then 1915.   I saw and passed up what I now think was an 1889 at a gun show in April.  Shoulda bought it, even though it was a wreck. 

I know little about Favorites, since I'm much more interested in the Model 12 and Model 101 in the boy's rifle category. 
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #40 - Jun 17th, 2014 at 3:36pm
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Gee, I've been letting the side down here.  Failing to pick up the barrel stamping break at 1916, when the "J.Stevens A&T"  name was changed by Westinghouse to "J.Stevens Arms".    Now I've gotta go back and look at 50 or so For Sale listings to see what that tells us.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #41 - Jun 25th, 2014 at 7:56am
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Dont know if this data is of any value, but there were three Model 44 barrels on ebay (i missed out on the good one!!).
1.  s/n 15632, J Stevens A & T...APR 17 94, .25 RF.
2.  s/n 26088, J Stevens A & T...APR 17 94, 22 LR.
3.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #42 - Jun 25th, 2014 at 7:58am
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Dang, just found the hot key for send!!

3.  33296, J Stevens A & T....APR 17 94, 22 LR.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #43 - Jun 26th, 2014 at 6:18pm
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Is that arrangement on my gun original? 


Rick--
       Your illustrated main spring is correctly configured (shaped) and correctly positioned in the action, but may not be an original O.E.M. part.  In order to opine that the spring is original O.E.M. J. Stevens, I would need to hold the spring in my hand for 20 seconds.

If it works the action, is that not enough ?

No one knows for certain when your Model 44 was made, so be accepting of that fact.  Unless you locate and consult with a clairvoyant.

C.M.M.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #44 - Jun 26th, 2014 at 6:43pm
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All of the factory records were burned by Westinghouse right after WW1, to avoid having them become evidence a Congressional inquiry. 

Phil W.


Hi Phil --
          I certainly appreciate that you wish to help this person with his question/s.  At the same time, permit me to offer one addendum to your information.  That being the fact that it was never proven by the available direct evidence that Westinghouse Corporation personnel ever destroyed business records belonging to the J. Stevens A. & T.Co. in order to impede the work of the U.S. Congress.

However, I would hasten to add that some such allegations were alleged by certain individuals.

C.M.M.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #45 - Jun 26th, 2014 at 9:23pm
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I have seen various theories on what happened to the Stevens records. Sort of like who really killed JFK? Lots of theories but no one will probably ever know for certain.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #46 - Jun 26th, 2014 at 10:43pm
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Smiley  Maybe I'm giving it too much credence due to current events?    Smiley

Whatever, they're gone, so reconstructing a time scale based on a survey is all we can hope for.

Phil

  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #47 - Jun 27th, 2014 at 2:29am
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Back in 1953, when I was 13, I found a book in our local library called "Merchants of Death".  The book was about those American firms who profited from the sales of weapons during the 1914-1918 war. 

(My aunt was the librarian and pointed out the book.  That's probably why I remember the details.).

Anyhow, the writers of the book wrote that Westinghouse burned the Stevens records.

  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #48 - Jun 27th, 2014 at 1:13pm
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Creedmoormatch, thanks for the reply.  If that's the way it came from the factory, that's the way it will stay.  It just didnt look very secure, so I thought it might be a post production kludge.  If the notation at Wisners is correct, it is "early" production, what ever that means.  Yeah, the date of manufacture will remain a mystery, but still, I'm curious.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #49 - Jun 27th, 2014 at 5:27pm
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That's a very common mainspring arrangement, both for Favorites and for 44's.  The spring should have a slightly concave end to keep it indexed on the peg, and the metal at the rear of the frame and inletting in the grip area of the stock will keep it from wandering out in any case.

There was a guy (think his name was John Kubelka or something) who sold aftermarket springs of that type for several years.  They would primarily fit Favorites, but would work on 44's too, in a pinch.  I e-mailed him about a year ago but he'd run out of stock and wasn't planning on making any more.  I should have bought a couple extras, I guess.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #50 - Jun 27th, 2014 at 6:38pm
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My experience (3 of 4 rifles) is that broken mainsprings of that type are common.  Anyone who shoots one needs a couple of extra mainsprings.

I tried substituting a stronger spring.  It made the trigger pull much too heavy.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #51 - Jun 29th, 2014 at 4:23pm
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The shape of the spring is crucial.   The geometry of the 44 action moves the force vector from the spring much closer to the hammer pivot as the rifle is cocked, when using the OEM spring shape.  This is why good 44s have such a light trigger pull, and require so little effort to cock.   Use spring of the wrong shape, and this advantage is negated.   

Look at the geometry of the last 44 - the model 417 - to see how to negate this feature entirely.   

Sadly, the design wisdom of Joshua Stevens seems to have been forgotten or ignored by his successors.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #52 - Jun 29th, 2014 at 7:52pm
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waterman wrote on Jun 27th, 2014 at 2:29am:
Back in 1953, when I was 13, I found a book in our local library called "Merchants of Death".  The book was about those American firms who profited from the sales of weapons during the 1914-1918 war. 

(My aunt was the librarian and pointed out the book.  That's probably why I remember the details.).

Anyhow, the writers of the book wrote that Westinghouse burned the Stevens records.



I'd be inclined to believe that over many other stories, since "Merchants of Death" was published in 1934, and close enough to the records burning for the author to have gathered first hand knowledge from individuals who knew. Good info Waterman!
  

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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #53 - Jun 29th, 2014 at 8:05pm
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Anyhow, the writers of the book wrote that Westinghouse burned the Stevens records.


Hi Waterman --

Am I correct that it was some time ago that you read this particular book?  Most published authors are scrutinized by proof readers, and then editors.

Are you certain that the words "alleged to have burned " were not included in that sentence ?

C.M.M.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #54 - Jun 29th, 2014 at 8:14pm
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It looks as though that book is available on Amazon, but only as a Kindle, which I neither have one nor want one.    Anybody with a Kindle up for some reading?

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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #55 - Jul 10th, 2014 at 1:15pm
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bent_ramrod, thanks for the reply.  My spring has no such concavity, and I was thinking of grabbing my die grinder and adding one.  My spring must be a replacement.  Now if I can just find my die grinder.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #56 - Aug 29th, 2014 at 1:28pm
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I have a 44 in 22lr # 16831 side extractor .......Larry  Smiley
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #57 - May 8th, 2019 at 2:16pm
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uscra112 wrote on Jun 9th, 2014 at 5:17pm:
A little summary so far:
Highest number on my list with side extractor is 16260 - Gunbroker  415163717
Lowest number seen to date with centre extractor is 18040 - a model 45 DST owned by frankeore

Grant wrote that  the center extractor started in 1901.

Highest number seen with screw pivots is 14542  - was on Gunbroker.
Lowest number seen with two-piece bolts is 15329 - was on Gunbroker.
In the 1903 catalog they tout the new design, so it must have been implemented between the 1900 catalog publication and 1903. 

According to catalogs, no centerfire Model 44 actions after 1903, except .25-20 and .32-20     Also from 1903 on the Models 45, 47, and up were on the 44 1/2 action, so any such on a 44 action must be 1903 or earlier. 

Highest 44 action in a large centerfire caliber is 25423 - GunBroker 407393445 - a .32-40

Highest centerfire action to date is 52341, a .25-20, Gunbroker  410040824
Highest centerfire caliber barrel is 61674, .25 caliber in my collection.
Highest Model 44 rimfire to date is 90039 - Gunbroker # 421669982         

1929 catalog does not mention [i]any[/i] centerfire calibers for the Model 44, only .22/.25/.32 rimfires.

All Model 44 style actions discontinued in 1932.  Except model 417 which seems to have a new s/n series.


Just so that you can update your list again, I just bought a Stevens 44 in .25-20SS that is just slightly higher in serial number than your previous high number (your barrel #61,674) with my rifle being #61,820.  26" half round / half octagon with a 6 o'clock extractor.

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I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #58 - May 8th, 2019 at 4:18pm
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Just bought a Model 44 in 22lr  at auction about a month ago.  Serial # 72973.
Looks like a capitol I in a circle stamped into action.  Side of action stamped
"Trade Mark Stevens".  Barrel stamped J. Stevens Arms Co.  Good shooting rifle with terrible trigger.  It has the newer case hardening not the Stevens ripple type.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #59 - May 8th, 2019 at 6:43pm
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I also see that there is another 44 Stevens in .25-20SS very similar to the one I just bought in an upcoming Canadian auction that is listed as serial number 79,810.

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I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #60 - May 8th, 2019 at 6:55pm
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cheatin_charlie wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
Just bought a Model 44 in 22lr  at auction about a month ago.  Serial # 72973.
Looks like a capitol I in a circle stamped into action.  Side of action stamped
"Trade Mark Stevens".  Barrel stamped J. Stevens Arms Co.  Good shooting rifle with terrible trigger.  It has the newer case hardening not the Stevens ripple type.


Does your 44 by any chance have the coil-spring strut for the hammer?  I know the 417 had that, but wondering if it was introduced earlier.  The old flat "arch" spring gave a slower hammer fall, but I find it easier to get a good trigger pull with it. 
« Last Edit: May 20th, 2019 at 9:21pm by uscra112 »  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #61 - May 8th, 2019 at 8:57pm
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It has the flat main spring in it.  Off to the gunsmith tomorrow to get the trigger worked on.  My gauge only goes to 6.5 lbs. and the hammer still did not fall.  No hair trigger for sure!
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #62 - May 8th, 2019 at 9:31pm
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That's BAD for a 44.  May be that the wear is thru the case hardening of the hammer notch.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #63 - May 9th, 2019 at 12:33am
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I believe someone on the list has a very late 44 with a coil spring.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #64 - May 10th, 2019 at 2:42am
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Wow, that's WAY up there in the s/n sequence if that number is being reported correctly!
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #65 - May 10th, 2019 at 2:57am
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cheatin_charlie wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
Just bought a Model 44 in 22lr  at auction about a month ago.  Serial # 72973.
Looks like a capitol I in a circle stamped into action.  Side of action stamped
"Trade Mark Stevens".  Barrel stamped J. Stevens Arms Co.  Good shooting rifle with terrible trigger.  It has the newer case hardening not the Stevens ripple type.


What is the barrel rollstamp?  J.Stevens A&T, or just J Stevens Arms?  That number is right on the break in my database.  And what sights does it have?
Phil
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #66 - May 10th, 2019 at 8:32am
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Barrel reads "J. Stevens Arms Co", the rifle is at the gunsmith for trigger work.
Barrel sights are Lyman No. 5 front and Lyman No. 6 rear. Two dollar upgrade of sights for a ten dollar rifle of the day according to my reprinted Stevens cat. 52.
serial no. is correct 72973.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #67 - May 10th, 2019 at 11:01am
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Thanks!
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #68 - May 20th, 2019 at 1:45pm
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Phil, I am really happy to see a serial number study being done. Look forward to even a teaser publication.
Add #35860 25-20SS J. Stevens Arms Company, 6 O'clock, if it matters. Plain Jane with my apologies to any Janes out there - no offense! Wayne
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #69 - May 20th, 2019 at 4:54pm
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LarryLee wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 1:45pm:
Phil, I am really happy to see a serial number study being done. Look forward to even a teaser publication.
Add #35860 25-20SS J. Stevens Arms Company, 6 O'clock, if it matters. Plain Jane with my apologies to any Janes out there - no offense! Wayne


Thanks, Wayne.  Actually yours is interesting.  That's the lowest s/n yet which has the J. Stevens Arms Company barrel rollstamp.  This would help define where in the s/n sequence the manufacture was taken over by Savage, save that there are many more of later s/n that bear the old J. Stevens A & T Co. stamp.  My surmise is that you have a replacement barrel there.  Whenever a 44 received a new factory barrel, they would have stamped the original s/n on the new barrel, since barrels do not interchange from one receiver to another.
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #70 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 5:54pm
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My model 44; j.stevens A. &T. CO pat. APR.17.94     32LONG R.F.  with upgraded sights f&r, sn; 13781 tight and in pristine condition. what year made?
  
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #71 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 7:50pm
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It will have the 7:00 extractor, and the breechblock and lever pivot screws will be .288 diameter, more or less. 

Model 44s start in 1896, at about s/n 3000, and the last of the side extractors with one-piece screw pivots falls at about s/n 14500.  We think that the change to the two-piece pivots occurred in 1899 or 1900, based vaguely on catalogue references.  So 13781 would likely be 1898 or 1899.  Can't be more precise than that.

Phil
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #72 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 8:02pm
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Jack Harrison, who posts here and on Gunbroker as >tenmile<, sells adapter cases and the correct heeled bullets to make your .32 Rimfire speak again in her native tongue.  He suggests Level 1 or Level 2 Ramset charges as propellant, but I much prefer to use "Acorn Blanks" as primer and 2.0 grains of Bullseye.  The effort required to remove the Ramset cases is enough IMHO to shorten the life of the adapters.

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n.b. Jack's adapters are made by swaging down .32 S&W Long brass.  As such they are longer than .32 RF, and so must be trimmed to length to fit your rifle.
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #73 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 8:21am
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Any guess on when my 44 in 22LR, s/n 69762, might have been made?
  

Glenn
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #74 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 9:49am
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It would be after Savage had bought Stevens from Westinghouse in 1920, because it has the diamond rollstamp on the left side. The lowest s/n I have logged with that feature is 69603, but the highest without the diamond is 67866. Significant gap there that I wish I could fill.  Also it's not certain that the diamond exactly coincides with the Savage takeover.  Best SWAG would be 1921, plus or minus a year or two. 

The barrel rollstamp is not a good indicator of date, btw.  I have logged barrels with the 1894 pattern "Arms & Tool" legend up into the 70,000 range, mixed in with the later "J Stevens Arms" rollstamp.  Looks like they were using up pre-war barrels for quite some time into the '20s.
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Re: Dating Stevens Model 44
Reply #75 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 2:25pm
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Thank you.
  

Glenn
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