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Gone Fly Fishing
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Maynard Model 1 ?
Sep 26th, 2014 at 5:54am
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Does  anyone have background information and particulars to share RE; the Maynard Model 1 carbine reproduction that was or is available from Daniel R. Sheetz ?  My understanding is these repro Maynards were or are available as both .36 and .50 caliber.  They are apparently N-SSA approved for competition, but I take that subjectively and with a grain of salt.

Responses greatly appreciated.  Purchase opportunities welcomed.  Hope you have a very successful 130th. Fall National

Creedmoormatch
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #1 - Sep 26th, 2014 at 6:43am
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I did find this image of someone's Maynard project kit, but no details are available.

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Any pros or cons to offer ?  It's, of course, not anywhere near to being an original Mass Arms !

C.M.M.
« Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2014 at 6:57am by Gone Fly Fishing »  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #2 - Sep 26th, 2014 at 7:37am
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Mr. Sheetz and I grew up about 5 miles from each other and went to high school together. He is a retired tool and die maker with a fairly nice shop at home. I use his shop sometimes for equipment that I don't have. He shoots in the N-SSA.

He has built one 1st Model Maynard from scratch complete with a working primer feed mechanism. It is impressive work. I supplied his barrel. He is currently working on 4 more but they are all spoken for. I've made up the barrels and I made the hammer and trigger blanks for him. He is a one man shop and has recently taken a part time job as a consultant that takes a week or two each month. He does not know when any of the rifles will be complete and he has said that he may never build another one.

  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2014 at 8:51am
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  Good morning, and thank you, John for providing that information.

  I am hoping to meet Mr. Scheetz next week and perhaps have the opportunity to see his Maynard carbine replica.

I'll look forward to seeing you at Bruce's digs also.
Regards,
Webb
  
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ALPHAWOLF45
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #4 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 12:29pm
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I am that guy who built the couple Maynards in that old thread.. Coincidentally I this morning pulled the Maynard I built in .45 ACP out of the closet and will put better sights on it  and smooth up the trigger to use it in a pistol cartridge silhouette match next month. Fun little gun. That and I have a gobzillion .45ACP cartridges already loaded up.

Gone Fly Fishing wrote on Sep 26th, 2014 at 6:43am:
I did find this image of someone's Maynard project kit, but no details are available.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)


Any pros or cons to offer ?  It's, of course, not anywhere near to being an original Mass Arms !

C.M.M.

  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #5 - Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:32pm
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Glad to see you're still at it Steven.  Sounds like a lot of fun - that pistol cartridge silhouette!

Regards, Joe
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #6 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:14am
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Alpha W.  Thanks for coming out with that info on the Maynard projects.  Would it be possible to see one or both of the projects in their finished state?

I don't think that Doctor Maynard would mind one bit that you copied his design.  Rather, I would think it would please him to know that you appreciate the design as much today as he did in his day.

Keep up the good work !

C.M.M.

P.S. I'd really like to see several more photos of your reproduction J.Stevens Model 44 1/2 !  What caliber is it chambered for ?
.
« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:20am by Gone Fly Fishing »  
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ALPHAWOLF45
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #7 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:15am
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Joe I am working diligently/obsessively at developing a product that I will be able to manufacture/market from my own machineshop so haven't had time to work on a gun in a while.. I been shooting BPCR silhouette matches using one of the Highwalls that I built from barstock..Love that sport.. Want to shoot some of the other silhouette matches. I have the Marlin 1892 .22 lever action I built from scratch that I can use for the .22 leveraction silhouette matches.. I don't have a homebuilt lever action centerfire  pistol caliber repeating rifle  but they'll let me shoot the singleshot Maynard, then if I get serious about it I may finish building one of the Winchester 1873s that I have been working on...Very satisfying that a man with 'nuff time and a full machine shop can build any gun he desires...............Hey, I am talking with the match director 'bout putting on some Quigley matches like they do in Montana 'cept I'll scale the buffalo down for the 600 yards we have at our club. I told'em I would donate the targets to the club if they will stage the matches.


jfeldman wrote on Sep 29th, 2014 at 10:32pm:
Glad to see you're still at it Steven.  Sounds like a lot of fun - that pistol cartridge silhouette!

Regards, Joe

  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #8 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:24am
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In which state is your shooting club located ?

CMM
  
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ALPHAWOLF45
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #9 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:26am
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Well sure ,I'll dig out some pictures and take some more and put'm here today..The caveat is that I didn't have an original to copy nor a scaled drawing  so I did best I could working from pictures pulled off the internet.


Gone Fly Fishing wrote on Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:14am:
Alpha W.  Thanks for coming out with that info on the Maynard projects.  Would it be possible to see one or both of the projects in their finished state?

I don't think that Doctor Maynard would mind one bit that you copied his design.  Rather, I would think it would please him to know that you appreciate the design as much today as he did in his day.

Keep up the good work !

C.M.M.

P.S. I'd really like to see several more photos of your reproduction J.Stevens Model 44 1/2 !  What caliber is it chambered for ?
.

  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #10 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:34am
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It is the Benton Arkansas gun club...

And per your Stevens 44 1/2 question.. I built one in .22 , one in .17 HM2, and another in .38-55...And I built one in .32-20 but I musta been drunk or fighting with the wife when I built it , it is really awful..


Gone Fly Fishing wrote on Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:24am:
In which state is your shooting club located ?

CMM

  
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ALPHAWOLF45
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #11 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 11:51am
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If this links you to my Photobucket account you can see just about everything gun related that I have ever built. Of course I am a hobbiest so take that into consideration and don't expect too much of me. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #12 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 3:44pm
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Alpha Wolf --- I am setting here absolutely amazed by the EXTREMELY talented work that you performed to bring the rough cut block of steel for the Maynard to the finished assembly I see in your photo-bucket album.

My first impression upon seeing your blank for the Maynard was " Yea, Right ! "  Well I'm happy to say you have made a believer out of me.

I do happen to believe in miracles, and have seen several during my life time -- well I'm here to tell you that I do believe that I've seen one here today in your work product.

Am I correct that you do your own case hardening ?  Or was what I saw a heat treating furnace?

Later,   Wink

CMM
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #13 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 4:04pm
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  Alpha Wolf --
               Are you connected with the N-SSA ?  Was wondering, since there is a big match later this week into the weekend near Winchester, Virginia at the N-SSA property known as Fort Shenandoah.

If you're not a member shooter, I would guess you know some of the Arkansas folks who come to that shoot.

CMM
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #14 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 4:54pm
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Yes CMM I do my own color case hardening ..It is a hobby for me so I do everything that I can. I make every spring and bolt and carve stocks. I would guess that it takes 25 or 30 years to get real good at gunsmith-ering and I only been puttering with it 10 or 12 years so I am still fighting with it here and there. I have built a few purty guns to my credit and a few stinkers that I built earlier on........Yeup, I like them before pictures showing roughed out pieces that scarcely resemble anything that could function in a rifle but every one of my projects go through that same ugly phase.
  I don't know anybody round here who shoots N-SSA but I am only little more than a year into the shooting sports so I don't know many people yet..
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #15 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 5:54pm
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  Alpha Wolf -- I've studied the one Maynard picture quite extensively (but not to the same degree as the other photos) and it appears to this Maynard owner that your barrel is either a Mass Arms original or an almost exact replica barrel from either Romano or J. Bly.

The reason I think that is; your barrel under lug for the finger lever linkage is too close to being the original configuration.  If you were to be working from Maynard photos only, how would you know the positioning and design of the barrel under lugs with the breach closed up and the finger lever in the "battery" position?

CMM
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #16 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 6:35pm
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  I pull every picture I can find off the internet and bring the better photos into AutoCAD where I scale them and trace them and guess at whatever else isn't obvious.....I and a whole lot of other people  can build virtually anything merely from photos pulled off the net. Just takes a heap of time and 'course tools and some appropriate previous experiences...No, all that is mine for better or worse.
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #17 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 7:32pm
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  Thanks Alpha Wolf for being so forthcoming with some really great information.

My conclusion is that you are one bright (intelligent) person, who is "smarter than the average bear".     Wink       Wink

CMM
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #18 - Sep 30th, 2014 at 8:05pm
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I did test very high on IQ tests but that's only because I knew the answers Grin  But I have worked with tools, machines since I was a young kid and now I am an old man, naturally I have learned a good deal along the way. Metalsworking is my passion, I was deep into that well before I ever fooled with a gun project. Gunsmithing however is a whole 'nuther science...Notice I don't fool with anything modern high power chambering. I don't trust myself to build anything that can take the side of my face off if it isn't made egggzackardly right.
   Ohhh hey. let me brag on myself... Two weeks ago friend and I met up at the club to shoot at  steel turkey silhouette.. We first hammered it hard at the 300 meter pig line then friend Paul suggested we set it out at the 500 meter Rams line.. With my home built .45-70 Highwall and iron sights I could not see it at all with my right eye but could just barely see it as a blurry speck with my left eye...So I got down prone and put the rifle butt to my left shoulder and aimed with my left eye but worked the double set trigger with my usual right hand trigger finger...I hit it 5 of 7 shots...Last 3 shots were solid hits but then I quit because the awkward hold was hammering my left shoulder....Fun though. Smiley...Do that with a hobbiest built home made rifle and it is a real good feeling.
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #19 - Oct 1st, 2014 at 6:10am
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Quote:
   Two weeks  With my home built .45-70 Highwall and iron sights I could not see it at all with my right eye but could just barely see it as a blurry speck with my left eye...


Alpha Wolf---

You may want to set aside some time to have an appointment with an Ophthalmologist in order to have your eyes examined and evaluated.  As a person reaches age 50, there are changes which take place, however, such changes are normal and correctable if attended to early by a Doctor of Ophthalmology (O.D. after their name).  Retail eye wear stores such a Wal-Mart mostly employ optometrists, which are basically vision testers and prescribe corrective lens, but are not doctors.

CMM
« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2014 at 6:17am by Gone Fly Fishing »  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #20 - Oct 1st, 2014 at 7:48am
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Alpha Wolf, you sir are a very talented craftsman and exceptionally intuitive at reverse engineering. I was impressed looking at your photos of the guns you have made from scratch. You use the same thread that I use assembling my Maynard barrels, 13/16"-20. The cam-over locking linkage of the barrel to frame is simple but there is very little room for error and you seem to have nailed it. Overall your Maynards are impressive.

Making things from pictures can be done as you have proved but it is not simple. While in engineering school I had a part time job in the Industrial Engineering machine shop. One of the professors brought back some photos of a device from a conference he had been to and wanted it duplicated. Other full time people in the shop said they needed more information such as drawings or sketches to build it. When I was asked if I could make it I said yes. I got the job and completed it to the satisfaction of the professor. I didn't make any friends in the shop as I was just one of those young upstart college kids passing thru.
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #21 - Oct 1st, 2014 at 8:34am
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Alpha Wolf ---
                Would you mind if I were to desire to learn more RE: the Maynard replica rifle that you produced and have shared with this Forum?

I am interested in learning how you accomplished the barrel.  Would I be correct that you do not have a rifling machine, so as an alternative, you produce the entire barrel as one piece and bore it smooth in order to receive a purchase liner for the insert?

Or, in the alternative, you produce the hex breech end portion with female threads and them install a purchased barrel (Green Mountain ? ?) which has been contoured in your shop to your requirements with a male thread to be assembled with the hex piece?

I find this thread one of the most interesting offered and I thank you for that.

C.M.M.
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #22 - Oct 1st, 2014 at 9:28am
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I agree with everyone else,you do do some very nice work. From what I see you have a pretty nice shop to work in. Just wish I had access to all the goodies you have as many people will have a lathe, and maybe a mill but you seem to have a grinder to go along with everything an some nice tooling to round things out. As a retired toolmaker, I see many things I easily recognize. Keep up the good work
Sam
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #23 - Oct 1st, 2014 at 10:45am
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Ohh yeah ,4600 sq. foot shop, heat treat furnace, Rockwell hardness tester, multiple manual lathes and mills and cnc mill and surface grinder, mig and tig welders.. Huge shop press and bunch of other stuff.. I do small jobs for a local injection mold maker when he has something he cant do.. I recently acquired a 75 ton injection molding machine for which I will have to build the molds- so I guess I could say I was a toolmaker but I don't have enough years at it to have earned that title.....Right now I need a cnc plasma burn table so eventually one of those will follow me home..There no shortage of tools that a guy can need if his projects are varied....I also cast aluminum and bronze and work on electronic projects. I'll dabble with almost anything. Guns is just fun projects for me. I am not really into guns like you all are.

nuclearcricket wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 9:28am:
I agree with everyone else,you do do some very nice work. From what I see you have a pretty nice shop to work in. Just wish I had access to all the goodies you have as many people will have a lathe, and maybe a mill but you seem to have a grinder to go along with everything an some nice tooling to round things out. As a retired toolmaker, I see many things I easily recognize. Keep up the good work
Sam

  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #24 - Oct 1st, 2014 at 11:15am
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I like the idea you suggest to carve the whole thing from a solid that then gets a rifled liner.. But working with what I had I chose the other route which was to thread a Green Mountain blank into a breech end portion....I don't have capability here to drill ,ream and rifle a barrel blank.
..I don't really know how to do any of this stuff..I just figger it out as I go along and hope for the best..Think I spent a month or 6 weeks building the pair of Maynards and spent less than a hundred bucks on each of them.. That is lot of fun hours for little money invested and they come out purty good.



Gone Fly Fishing wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 8:34am:
Alpha Wolf ---
                Would you mind if I were to desire to learn more RE: the Maynard replica rifle that you produced and have shared with this Forum?
C.M.M
 
I am interested in learning how you accomplished the barrel.  Would I be correct that you do not have a rifling machine, so as an alternative, you produce the entire barrel as one piece and bore it smooth in order to receive a purchase liner for the insert?

Or, in the alternative, you produce the hex breech end portion with female threads and them install a purchased barrel (Green Mountain ? ?) which has been contoured in your shop to your requirements with a male thread to be assembled with the hex piece?

I find this thread one of the most interesting offered and I thank you for that.

C.M.M.

  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #25 - Oct 1st, 2014 at 11:26am
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[quote author=5F7A7D7B4A513B4A57796C150 link=1411725274/20#20 date=1412164091] The cam-over locking linkage of the barrel to frame is simple but there is very little room for error and you seem to have nailed it. Overall your Maynards are impressive.

DeadEye
   Are you saying you build the entire Maynard rifle yourself?.. I would like to build my own example of  every  rifle used in the civil war.. I nearly have a Sharps finished.. Really itching to build a Burnside.. I have folders filled with pictures of all the civil war rifles. I just need the time and inclination. Uhhmmm , I don't mean to give the impression that I can make an authentic in every respect replica working only from pictures but I can definitely make a reasonably good facsimile -good enough to suit me.
..Hehhehehhe
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #26 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:18am
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No, I've never built an entire Maynard rifle. I started assembling barrels in 2001 on a monobloc barrel stub machined from chrome-moly steel just the way you did it. A friend and retired diemaker made a 1st Model Maynard from scratch and now is making a few more. I have helped him by making the hammer and trigger blanks and I'm supplying the barrels.

By supporting Maynard shooters I've made a lot of parts, 1873 adapter rings, extractor blanks, screws, link blanks, hammers, triggers, anything to keep the rifles working.
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #27 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:38am
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  John B. made for me the extremely small threaded screw which is quite lengthy in order to engage and retain the firing pin in my 1873 Maynard.  He told me he used magnification for most of the process.

John also was, or currently is, making Maynard tang sight bases which are compatible with the various fold down staffs that are available on the market today.

Need Maynard help or have questions, John B. is the person who would be available to help you.

C.M.M.
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #28 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 9:19am
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The internet is the resource that makes all this possible for me.. Before I got very far along with my Maynards I found a gentleman online who answered a couple questions for me. I needed to know some dimensions so that I could scale it ..You can find good pictures of most any parts on Gunbroker but then you have got to figure out the dimensions. But I find that folks online are very helpful at measuring their own guns/parts and taking pictures when I need another view.
  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #29 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 3:58pm
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  Hello Alpha Wolf---

I am perusing you Maynard at:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

And in doing so, I have a question for you, if I may?  On the right hand side of the standing breech there appears to be a hole with an installed plug in place.

As you know, the 1st. Model percussion Maynards had a replaceable nipple that was made at a 90 degree angle and it protruded slightly out of the standing breech on the right hand side with a "clean out" threaded screw.  I'm wondering how and why you choose to do that element in your project in the manner that you've done?

Photos No. 8 and 9, going from left to right, show what I am speaking about.

Thanks much.

Creedmoormatch
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2014 at 4:04pm by Gone Fly Fishing »  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #30 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 5:18pm
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The "as you know" line is incorrect. Fact is that I don't know. I built these couple rifles FAST..I didn't have an authentic example to copy, indeed to this day I still have never seen a real one in person.Knowing that I cant build a precise replica just studying pictures I then give myself the liberty to make decisions that may not be right but keeps the project moving along.. I doubt that my nipple is in exactly the right place and oriented as it should be.. I had problem with getting the flame from the percussion cap doglegged over and thru the tiny hole in the breech face . My fix was to add the removable plug and in that plug I was able to machine a good flame channel.
    Hey no kidding.. Tough build really considering that the tiny hole in breechface must line up with tiny hole in rear of cartridge case when the barrel is levered down and cam over locked in place....Simple gun but it has to be right or it wont work. Indeed I am very pleased that I was able to build such a thing in rather short time and primarily working from pictures.. But it is not correct in all the details.


Gone Fly Fishing wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 3:58pm:
  Hello Alpha Wolf---

I am perusing you Maynard at:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

And in doing so, I have a question for you, if I may?  On the right hand side of the standing breech there appears to be a hole with an installed plug in place.

As you know, the 1st. Model percussion Maynards had a replaceable nipple that was made at a 90 degree angle and it protruded slightly out of the standing breech on the right hand side with a "clean out" threaded screw.  I'm wondering how and why you choose to do that element in your project in the manner that you've done?

Photos No. 8 and 9, going from left to right, show what I am speaking about.

Thanks much.

Creedmoormatch

  
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Re: Maynard Model 1 ?
Reply #31 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 5:31pm
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  Hello Alpha Wolf --- Thank you for taking the time to answer my question/s.

I am in no way wanting to be critical in any respects regarding your fantastic Maynard replica.  I have already recognized your openness and honesty and have said so earlier above.  I, without any doubt, highly respect and hold in esteem people such as your self who are achievers.

If I lived closer to Ark., I would loan you a cardboard box filled with a dis-assemble Mass. Arms Co. produced Maynard 1873 and allow you to have it for a couple of weeks to inspect it at your leisure.

CMM
  
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