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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ... (Read 7725 times)
Reverend Al
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JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Jun 26th, 2016 at 3:21pm
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I already posted this over on the "Cast Boolits" site, but it was suggested that I cross post it here too.  Been "lurking" for a while since I've always been a single shot rifle lover and have a few in my varied collection of guns.

A few days ago I bought another one of my personal "holy grail" guns ... a JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific model!

This one is a .40-90 Ballard with 30" octagon barrel and the bore is in very good condition. (And no, it doesn't have a bulge up near the muzzle ... that is just a shadow in the photo I took.) The muzzle is a bit banged up, but the previous owner was shooting it using .40-90 Bertram cases (20 rounds of brass came with the gun) and the RCBS 400 grain .410 Silhouette bullet. He said it would stay on the 100 yard practice pig target at his range without any trouble, so I'll shoot it a bit on paper first before I make any attempts to touch up the crown. The buttstock, buttplate, and wiping rod are replacements and the gun is mostly medium brown, but it's nice and tight so it's nice enough to shoot, but not so nice that I'll feel guilty about shooting it.

I'll have to make a cerrosafe casting of the chamber to see if it is chambered for the .40-90 Ballard or the .40-90 Ballard Ideal "Everlasting". I suspect the latter since the supplied fire-formed Bertram .40-90 cases are swollen at the base ahead of the rim leading me to think it is either a big chamber or that it might be in the thicker "Everlasting" case, but a cerrosafe casting should tell the story.  The previous owner was shooting the Bertram cases with 80 grains of black and the RCBS 400 grain conventional grooved Silhouette bullet with good success, but I think this is a perfect opportunity for me to finally jump in and try paper patching smooth sided bullets.  (I've been reloading conventional cast bullets for years to shoot in many of my old time rifles.)

Is anyone out there shooting the .40-90 Ballard cartridge that can same me some time and offer any loading tips?  Since I'm up in Canada I've already emailed "Red River Rick" in Winnipeg to inquire about an adjustable .40 calibre paper patch mould.

Cheers,

Al
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2016 at 3:41pm by Reverend Al »  
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Reverend Al
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #1 - Jun 26th, 2016 at 3:24pm
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(I had to replace my original Photobucket pictures since they have now stopped 3rd party hosting of photos on websites unless you pay them a massive "ransom"!)

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« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2017 at 4:24pm by Reverend Al »  
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Reverend Al
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #2 - Jun 26th, 2016 at 3:26pm
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(Replaced old Photobucket photos into the above post.)
« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2017 at 4:26pm by Reverend Al »  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #3 - Jun 26th, 2016 at 3:32pm
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In the end I did source a bunch of once fired Norma 9.3x74R cases and fire-formed them to use as "shooter" brass in my Ballard.  Annealed them about 1/2 way down and then fire-formed with a blank charge of smokeless and yellow cornmeal filler.  They form most of the way.  Then I load them with a regular cast bullet load and they blow out right down to the base.  The rims are a bit undersized, but as long as I ensure that the extractor is seated before I chamber a cartridge the fired cases extract without and issues.

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #4 - Jun 26th, 2016 at 3:37pm
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Oh ... the way ... it is serial number 7930 which from a "best guess" based on rough production numbers would put it at about 1877 or 1878 for manufacture?
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Chuckster
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #5 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 9:06am
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I like Ballard Pacific's and that appears to be a very nice one.
Would not want to shoot it on a regular basis with the crescent butt-plate but it was built as a hunting rifle.
Looks like you need a set trigger adjustment screw and don't understand the insert behind the trigger plate.
Good looking rifle.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #6 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 9:48am
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Chuckster wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 9:06am:
Looks like you need a set trigger adjustment screw and don't understand the insert behind the trigger plate.
Good looking rifle.
Chuck


What "insert" Chuck? Looks like the back edge of the breech block halves to me?
  

Vall
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #7 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 11:49am
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The factory standard projectile is 370 grains. I like that weight in the 40-90 but I will admit I like the 330 grainer also.
Black powder is about a must in this cartridge and to use a paper patch bullet it needs to have a perfect bore as anything less than will tear the patch and give irratic targets.
I use Bertram as thats the only game in town. Note that there are 2 sizes of the Bertram. You need the .477 head size. The difference between the 40-90 and 40-90 Ideal everlasting is the Ideal is 3 1/16. Your rifle is early enough that it might be one. Just stick a wooden dowel down the chamber end till you feel it hit the mouth of the chamber, using thumbnail hold on dowel at receiver end of barrel. Extract and measure. It won't be exact but it will tell you what you want to know.

  8 grains 4759  80 grains FG I use FG as its not so stout on the rifle and gets you there all the same. Its a powerful cartridge anyway.

   Don
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #8 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 12:40pm
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You all are right, and I missed it.
My trigger plate extends back to cover that area and assumed all DST Ballard's were like that. (Ass-u-me)
Still a very nice rifle.
Chuck
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #9 - Jun 27th, 2016 at 2:42pm
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The bore on this one is very good which is why I thought I'd finally delve into the paper patching and see what happens.  If I buy the adjustable mould from Red River Rick out in Winnipeg I could play with bullets ranging from 300 to 400 grains and see how they shoot ... and how badly the big bullets kick!  I have my own cerrosafe on hand so I will do a casting to get the actual chamber dimensions and go from there.  Again, the bore is very good, but the crown at the muzzle concerns me a bit as it is rough.  I'll shoot it first, but I may have to clean up the crown to get really decent accuracy?  If the paper patched bullets don't shoot all that well I can always resort back to a conventional grooved cast bullet which is what the previous owner was shooting in the gun.
Thanks for the interest and advice everyone ...

rustyrelx wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 11:49am:
The factory standard projectile is 370 grains. I like that weight in the 40-90 but I will admit I like the 330 grainer also.
Black powder is about a must in this cartridge and to use a paper patch bullet it needs to have a perfect bore as anything less than will tear the patch and give irratic targets.
I use Bertram as thats the only game in town. Note that there are 2 sizes of the Bertram. You need the .477 head size. The difference between the 40-90 and 40-90 Ideal everlasting is the Ideal is 3 1/16. Your rifle is early enough that it might be one. Just stick a wooden dowel down the chamber end till you feel it hit the mouth of the chamber, using thumbnail hold on dowel at receiver end of barrel. Extract and measure. It won't be exact but it will tell you what you want to know.

  8 grains 4759  80 grains FG I use FG as its not so stout on the rifle and gets you there all the same. Its a powerful cartridge anyway.

   Don

  
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Reverend Al
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #10 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 3:09am
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PS: Don ... I'm assuming that your load is 8 weighed grains of SR4759 topped with 80 grains of FG by volume?  (Or are you weighing the black powder charge as well?)  Are you using a card wad or a grease cookie over the powder charge and under the bullet?  Any powder compression?

Thanks again for the info!

Al

rustyrelx wrote on Jun 27th, 2016 at 11:49am:
The factory standard projectile is 370 grains. I like that weight in the 40-90 but I will admit I like the 330 grainer also.
Black powder is about a must in this cartridge and to use a paper patch bullet it needs to have a perfect bore as anything less than will tear the patch and give irratic targets.
I use Bertram as thats the only game in town. Note that there are 2 sizes of the Bertram. You need the .477 head size. The difference between the 40-90 and 40-90 Ideal everlasting is the Ideal is 3 1/16. Your rifle is early enough that it might be one. Just stick a wooden dowel down the chamber end till you feel it hit the mouth of the chamber, using thumbnail hold on dowel at receiver end of barrel. Extract and measure. It won't be exact but it will tell you what you want to know.

  8 grains 4759  80 grains FG I use FG as its not so stout on the rifle and gets you there all the same. Its a powerful cartridge anyway.

   Don

  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #11 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 11:29am
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Bulk and buld not weighed
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #12 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 11:33am
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Bulk and buld not weighed..

PS 40-90 Ballard is a favorite cartridge. Groove diameter should be .410  Forget about all the .403 stuff that everybody writes about. UNLESS you use a paperpatched projectile. And .403 would be a good place to start BEFORE you patch it.
I like the .40-90 Ideal also.
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #13 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 3:46am
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OK ... thanks!  I'm still looking into trying to get a few sample 9.3x74R cases to fire-form in it to see it will be possible to make some "shooter" brass that would be close to the chamber dimensions without paying $5.00 or more per round for cases that are a perfect fit!

Shocked
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #14 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 2:34pm
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I personally would not go that routebut if you must there are diffrent rim thicknesses, make sure you get the think one. $5 a round? never saw one that expensive. Get a box of Bertrams from Buffalo arms with the .477 head size.
  Don
probable not going to shoot it THAT much
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #15 - Jul 3rd, 2016 at 1:25pm
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The trouble is that I'm up in Canada and with the current exchange most of the "oddball" sizes of Bertram brass are running from about $85.00 to $100.00 Canadian per box of 20.  So by the time you add the taxes and shipping .40-90 brass will run me $5.00 to $6.00 each.  And unfortunately I can't order rifle brass from Buffalo or any other American distributor with the current cross border regulations.  (Hey, you never know ... I could be a terrorist planning an attack with a 135 year old black powder single shot rifle ...)  Sigh ...

"Probably not going to shoot it THAT much?"  I'm hoping to shoot the "H E double hockey sticks" out of it!

Wink

I'd like to have at least 100 rounds of brass on hand for it with that in mind.  I have a line on some once fired Norma 9.3x74R brass for about $75.00 (Canadian) per 100 so it's probably worth getting some to play around with.  If the rims are too thin for my chamber then I can always shim them up a bit ...

rustyrelx wrote on Jun 29th, 2016 at 2:34pm:
I personally would not go that routebut if you must there are diffrent rim thicknesses, make sure you get the think one. $5 a round? never saw one that expensive. Get a box of Bertrams from Buffalo arms with the .477 head size.
  Don
probable not going to shoot it THAT much

  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #16 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 4:21pm
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Well, I just "pulled the trigger" on the purchase of 500 (yes, five hundred) rounds of once fired Norma 9.3x74R brass from a company over in Germany.  (It was hard to resist since I'm buying it for about the same price I would have to pay for 40 rounds of brand new Hornady 9.3x74R brass up here in Canada!)  When it arrives I'll see how the case dimensions compare to the chamber in my Ballard.  I want to try fire-forming it into some "shooter" brass in .40-90 Ballard.  If it doesn't work out to make cases for the Ballard then I'll just reform it all into full length 3" brass .410 cases instead ...
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #17 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 6:58pm
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I hope you keep the thread updated!    Will be interested in your progress.    I've got a 40-63 I just shot at the Quigley.   My bullets are a little over 350gr but it shoots another 317gr bullet I cast very well too.    I initially reamed the inside of the necks but eventually resorted to turning brass instead.    More uniform neck tension going that route with a groove diameter bullet.
  

Best Regards,
John
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #18 - Jul 18th, 2016 at 3:46pm
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Yep ... I'll keep you posted and let you know how it works out!  It will likely take a little while though.  The company in Germany wouldn't ship the once fired brass to me in Canada, so I had to get them to ship it to a friend of mine that lives in Hamburg and then he'll re-ship it to me in Canada ... and my friend is away on holidays until August 4th so he can't ship them to me until after he gets back home.  It's a bit of a convoluted mess just to source some brass, but at the price I'm paying for the 500 rounds of once fired Norma brass I couldn't turn it down ...  (Up here in Canada thanks to the current exchange rate 20 rounds of brand new Hornady 9.3x74R brass would cost me $75.00 Canadian!)

Shocked

SgtDog0311 wrote on Jul 16th, 2016 at 6:58pm:
I hope you keep the thread updated!    Will be interested in your progress.    I've got a 40-63 I just shot at the Quigley.   My bullets are a little over 350gr but it shoots another 317gr bullet I cast very well too.    I initially reamed the inside of the necks but eventually resorted to turning brass instead.    More uniform neck tension going that route with a groove diameter bullet.

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #19 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 10:46pm
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A little more progress ... (I hope) ...

Yesterday afternoon I made a batch of home-made lube (50/50 Crisco / Beeswax and a few drops of olive oil) to pan lube some 400 grain RCBS .410 bullets to test in the Ballard.  I left them overnight for the lube to set up and I'm just heading down to the shop right now to cut them out with a modified .45-70 case.  I'll be waiting a while for the 9.3x74R brass to arrive so that I can fire form and test some, but I have 19 rounds of Bertram .40-90 brass that came with the rifle (# 20 had a vertical split in it) and I'm going to test load 19 of these bullets and shoot the Ballard for the very first time this Sunday.  I'll try shooting my 1885 High Wall in .40-82 WCF for the first time on Sunday too, so it should be a fun and interesting day!

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #20 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 11:12pm
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Your lube formula is close to what I use. I use 50% beeswax, 40%Crisco, and 10% Vaseline.
  

Vall
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #21 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 4:28am
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al,
it might pay to only load 1 bullet first.
the reason is that if you have a true pp chamber, the cartridge might be too large in diameter to fit.
if that is the case, please do not rechamber it to take groove diameter bullets, as you will destroy a piece of history.
the 403 stuff so denigrated means that you patch to bore diameter as opposed to groove diameter, then you have the right chamber for the job.
probably will not need to size cases, just finger seat.
all you need is a buffalo arms 2 diameter expander to form cases.
keep safe,
bruce.
  

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #22 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 3:35pm
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Thanks for the info.  Yes, I was aware that this is a paper-patch chamber (virtually no throat ... the rifling begins at the end of the chamber) and I don't have any plans to alter it in any way.  The previous owner was shooting these RCBS 400 grain bullets with fairly good success rather than paper patching so I'm going to try a few since he supplied these samples with the rifle.  I used a cleaning rod to measure COAL using this bullet and will load the sample cases with black until the bullet lightly touches when the cartridge is seated and will try that to see how it shoots.  (The PO was shooting about 80 grains of 2F with these bullets.)  I've been swapping emails with Red River Rick out in Winnipeg and I plan to have him make me one of his adjustable smooth sided paper patch moulds so that I can try making some traditional style 370 grain PP bullets for it.  Looks like the PP bullet should be cast at about .400" to .403" and then patched up to .410"?  Been contemplating trying paper patching for years, so this rifle will finally be a good excuse to "push me over the edge" and I'll give it a try.  I'll keep you posted ...
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #23 - Jul 23rd, 2016 at 8:40am
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Al,   I missed it if you said so earlier but do you still have the original owner available to you.   I be curious to know if he needed to size his bullets.   If he did, I'm guessing, since those came without lube, they are unsized.   Anyway, just a thought in case you have problems chambering the last quarter inch or so with the first dummy round recommended.   if so, a very slight sizing might address that.   Could be you won't even have the problem.   Odd how a small change in recipe can effect the color of the lube so much.  Mine is not so different but way yellower.
  

Best Regards,
John
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #24 - Jul 23rd, 2016 at 2:38pm
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Well, I loaded the 19 Bertram cases I have on hand yesterday and will test shoot them tomorrow up at our local range.  In the end I settled on loading a small, hand weighed "kicker" charge of 6 grains of SR4759 over the primer (I used CCI 200 Large Rifle) and then I drop tubed in 80 grains (by volume measure) of 3F.  When the bullet was seated to lightly engage the rifling it compressed everything slightly.  I had no issues chambering any of the loaded rounds so the "as cast" diameter of .410" doesn't look like it will be a problem.  I'll give these a shot (literally) and see what happens on paper tomorrow.  I'm planning on wiping wet and then dry between shots, but I'll see how dirty the bore is between shots to see if the "kicker" is helping to reduce fouling in the cases and bore or not.
I had the same thought after my home-brew lube solidified and now I'm wondering if the cake I had on hand was beeswax or not?  I got it from a friend and he claimed it was purified beeswax from a local honey company, but maybe not?  If worse comes to worse I'll source a new supply of raw, yellow beeswax and can add it to the existing mix?  I'll see how it works out tomorrow when I shoot these first sample rounds.
Again, I'll keep you posted ...

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #25 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 4:03am
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PS: I neck sized the cases using my set of RCBS .40-82 WCF dies, belled them slightly, and then seated the pan lubed, as cast, .410" diameter bullets and ran them up into the die just enough to take the bell off the case mouths.  Again, this is just the first round of preliminary testing and I'll see how they perform loaded this way.  Maybe on the next batch I'll try hand seating the bullets without neck sizing in the fire formed cases.  There are lots of different options ...
Wink
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #26 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 11:45pm
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OK, finally got this Ballard Pacific up to the range today and fired a few of the test loads I made for it and it's staying on paper, but the groups weren't stellar.  I shot a few "dirty" and then shot a few wiping wet and then dry patching between shots, but couldn't see much difference in accuracy to be honest.  Didn't get a chance to concentrate on best groups since I was hosting my young next door neighbour to a day of shooting instruction and coaching, so I'll take it up another day on my own when I can shoot some more serious test groups.  With the 80 grain load it has a respectable "push" ... with a bit more recoil than my 1885 Winchester in .40-82 WCF, but not too bad.  I'll try some 2F and 1F loads and see if there is much difference in the groups too.  Again, I'll keep you posted as I shoot it more ...
Smiley
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #27 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 11:52pm
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On a side note though, I also took up one of my 2 Swedish Rolling Blocks in 8x58R Danish Krag and shot it for the first time too.  The test loads were 22 grains of SR4759 (no filler) and an old Ideal 221 grain .325" cast bullet with an aluminum gas check.  It has a typically LONG throat and even seating that big bullet out with only the gas check and one band inside the case mouth it is still 90 thousandths short of the throat!  The good news though is that it put 8 of 10 shots into one nice round group at 50 yards with one flyer slightly low left and one slightly right of the other 8 rounds.  All that was with the crappy folding sights mounted on the barrel too ... no tang sight yet.  Looks like it really wants to shoot!
Cool

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #28 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 7:40am
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Al, just FYI, last weekend I had the privilege of helping an gentleman work up a load for his grandfathers 1885 Winchester, S/N dates to 1886.  It is in 40-90 Sharps straight also and has the chamber and shallow rifling for PP bullets.  Best load, and it was remarkable, was the Lyman bullet similar to your RCBS except I believe mine is more of a bore rider.  I used Federal 215 primers and some of my old GOEX Ctg. powder, the good batch, at 83 grs. in some machined brass the guy had bought.  Lube was SPG and bullet alloy 25-1.  Without checking I think my bullet diameter is .409-.410.  Seated just off the lands at 50 yards it shot one ragged hole....then did it again. 

The gentleman did not have the time for us to load some more and put it on paper at 100 yds. and farther.  I sure would have liked to and learned if the accuracy would hold.
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #29 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 3:53pm
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OK, thanks for the info.  I don't have any Goex Cartridge on hand right now, but could likely borrow a little bit from some friends that are more addicted to black powder cartridge shooting than I have been the past few years.  I do have a couple of part cans of 1F and 2F on hand though, so I'll try those next for comparison.  These initial loads with the 3F were just for basic testing to see what would happen.  I mostly shoot light smokeless loads in my older guns, but wanted to try some more traditional loads in this old Pacific Ballard.

There were about 10 other people up at our rifle range shooting yesterday and they all wanted to know what I was shooting after I touched off a few and created a "fog bank".  Most of them wanted to take a picture of the .40-90 Ballard cartridge next to whatever they were shooting in their rifles!  LOL ...

My young next door neighbour that I took up to the range for a bit of shooting instruction and coaching had a blast (literally) and really enjoyed shooting the variety of guns I brought along.  He especially like shooting my Springfield Armory M1 Garand and was smiling like the Cheshire Cat from Alice in Wonderland whenever he fired the last round and the steel clip "pinged" out of the rifle and bounced onto the ground.

Grin

I taught him a little bit about basic shooting techniques (mostly proper sight picture with open and aperture sights, breathing, and trigger control), how to shoot offhand "standing on your hind legs", and how to shoot offhand using a sling to get a more stable shooting stance.  By the end of the day he was hitting our 200 yards steel gong with pretty fair regularity.  He's totally hooked now and can't wait to go up and do it again sometime soon.  Next time I'll take up a different variety of rifles in some other action types and calibres and we'll continue the lessons ...

Smiley
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #30 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 4:36pm
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Well ...  I'm a bit of a "shootin' fool" and in the end rather than 500 rounds instead I bought 1200 rounds of once fired Norma 9.3x74R brass out of Germany and had it shipped over.  Sold about half of it to recover costs and now I have fire-formed several hundred rounds for use in this Ballard!

Roll Eyes

rustyrelx wrote on Jun 29th, 2016 at 2:34pm:
I personally would not go that route but if you must there are different rim thicknesses, make sure you get the think one. $5 a round? never saw one that expensive. Get a box of Bertrams from Buffalo arms with the .477 head size.
  Don
probable not going to shoot it THAT much

« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2017 at 4:45pm by Reverend Al »  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #31 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 4:52pm
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Well, it's good to hear from ya again. Been a while, but I can see why if you've been forming that much brass in that ol' cannon.
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #32 - Aug 12th, 2017 at 11:21am
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sharps4590 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 7:40am:
Al, just FYI, last weekend I had the privilege of helping an gentleman work up a load for his grandfathers 1885 Winchester, S/N dates to 1886.  It is in 40-90 Sharps straight also .


The .40-90 Sharps Straight, and .40-90 Ballard/.40-85 Everlasting, are not the same case. The Sharps being 3.25" long where the Ballard is 2.94" long. But the rim and base diameter are almost identical.
  

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #33 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 3:44am
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Norma 9.3x74R cases now fully fire-formed into .40-90 Ballard and then "prettified" after a trip through my ss pin tumbler!

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(And several hundred still to go!)

Cool
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #34 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:37pm
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My friend Holger is over from Hamburg, Germany right now for his annual holiday visit to Canada so I "forced" him to go up to our local range with me and fire-form a bunch more of the Norma 9.3x74R brass in my Ballard Pacific.

Cool

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #35 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 1:04pm
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i have the same rifle as yours. looks like you have the everlasting chamber with no throat. so paperpatch is the way to go here once you get proper brass. most of my bertram brass all split after 3-4 firings. i had rocky mountain cartridge make make me up the correct thickwall cases, and hence all the problems are gone and appear they are going to last for quite some time. i like the fact that new new brass is marked "everlasting". pricy for sure, but nice.
best
kw
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #36 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:10pm
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I've been following this thread with great interest as about ten years or so ago I acquired a similar 40-90 Ballard #5 Pacific from the estate sale of an old gunsmith friend of mine.  Anyway, it has all matching numbers in the receiver and butt, but the barrel and fore end have a different (but self matching) serial number.  Then to cap it off, there is no caliber marking on the barrel, although everything else seems "normal."  I identified the chambering by a chamber cast and my one example of a paper patched 40-90 round which appears to be a perfect fit.

So, why don't I buy up a bunch of the metric German brass and start loading?  Because the bore is what I would call marginal... not badly pitted, but a VERRRYY long way from pristine.  I am hesitant to put forth the cash and effort to build a batch of this ammo only to find out the bore isn't good enough to support good accuracy.  As an alternative, I'm wondering about having that unmarked barrel rebored to 45-70 so it will be easy to get ammo and I'll have a fresh bore to work with.  Decisions, decisions.  Undecided

Froggie
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #37 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:28pm
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I'm not a fan of Bertram brass, and have had horrible luck with it. But got some from one of our ASSRA members, and sized it down from .45-90 after annealing the top half of the cases. They fit perfect, and I have not lost any cases to splitting after 4 firings now.
I also use the 9.3x74R Hornady brass, and it's great. But I occasionally have the smaller rim slip past the extractor, and have to bump the loaded case back out, to get the extractor below the rim. Not a problem if I'm careful, but sometimes I'm not.
  

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #38 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 3:04am
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So far my reformed Norma 9.3x74R brass is working very well, but I have the same problem as you with the small rims.  If I'm careful to ensure that the extractor is seated before I chamber a cartridge it will extract with no issues, but if I'm not careful it's easy to let the small rim slip behind the extractor and then like you I need to knock the cartridge back out with a cleaning rod.  I just have to pay attention and make sure the extractor is seated first.  (And it sure is nice to have LOTS of shooter brass for a very reasonable price!)
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #39 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:36am
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I put a 3/8 thin o-ring on the base of the case and it prevents the case from slipping by the extractor and keeps the case snungnup against the breach block.  I have about 15 but need to stop in at the automotive store and buy a couple dozen more.
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #40 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 12:16pm
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OK, good to know!  I'll pick up some O rings and try that ...
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #41 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 12:30pm
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Rex N wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:36am:
I put a 3/8 thin o-ring on the base of the case and it prevents the case from slipping by the extractor and keeps the case snungnup against the breach block.  I have about 15 but need to stop in at the automotive store and buy a couple dozen more.


Rubber O rings? Or some sort of thin brass washer? Seems somewhat temporary if it's rubber.
  

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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #42 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 11:09pm
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Just a rubber o-ring, you can use them over and over again.  They are cheap if you need to replace any.
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #43 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:54pm
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Green_Frog wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:10pm:
I am hesitant to put forth the cash and effort to build a batch of this ammo only to find out the bore isn't good enough to support good accuracy.


I'd be tempted to try and find a few rounds of 9.3x74R brass to reform and at least TRY shooting it to see if is beyond help before reboring it to .45-70.  Sometimes a paper patched bullet will shoot surprisingly well in a rough bore, so that's something to consider too.  Another thought is since the bore is rough anyway you might consider "fire lapping" it to see if it will improve a bit?  I bought the LBT fire lapping kit to try in a few of my rough bores, but haven't had a chance to try it yet.  Just a thought ...

(And I'd send you a few fire-formed cases for testing, but since I'm up here in Canada, Customs or ITAR would most likely seize them and then send a SWAT team to my door because I'd be considered a "terrorist" for sending you a few empty, obsolete rifle cartridge cases ... sigh ...)

Undecided
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #44 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:27pm
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Thanks for the thought, Rev Al.  Maybe I could come to Canada and sew a fringe of brass jingle bobs on my Hudson Bay Capote coat to bring them back across the line from one land of crazies to a different land of crazies.  As they said on an album cover about 40 years ago, "We're all bozos on this bus!"

It seems like I have some brass around here somewhere to try.  Maybe I can cobble something together, but then I'll have to load for yet another caliber.  Roll Eyes

Froggie
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #45 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 5:19pm
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Green_Frog wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:27pm:
Maybe I can cobble something together, but then I'll have to load for yet another caliber.  Roll Eyes


??? You say that like it's a bad thing ...

Grin
  
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Re: JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific in .40-90 ...
Reply #46 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 5:35pm
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Green_Frog wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:27pm:
Thanks for the thought, Rev Al.  Maybe I could come to Canada and sew a fringe of brass jingle bobs on my Hudson Bay Capote coat to bring them back across the line from one land of crazies to a different land of crazies.  As they said on an album cover about 40 years ago, "We're all bozos on this bus!"

It seems like I have some brass around here somewhere to try.  Maybe I can cobble something together, but then I'll have to load for yet another caliber.  Roll Eyes

Froggie


Charlie,
Since Ruger chambered the #1 for this great old caliber, Hornady is offering brass reasonably again! You can find it for around $30 for 20 at several places.
  

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