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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style (Read 3012 times)
marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style
Reply #15 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 9:57am
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No, unlike Winchester barrels, Ballard barrels are a crap shoot if they fit from gun to gun. Each was hand fitted to it's individual receiver. So consider yourself lucky if it indexed up, and headspaced well.
  

Vall
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uscra112
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Re: Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style
Reply #16 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 1:25pm
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Well, I guess I used up my luck there, then, and for the rest of the project I will have to do without. 

Another question, if you will:  Should the upper face of the breechblock "tail" contact the inside of the receiver?  This one does, given dimensions of the lever and link I'm using.  I've read that it should, according to one Internet expert.  Seems counter-intuitive to me.  Whatever preload there is in the lockup should be between the shoulder and the breech face, by my lights.   That's how I've learned to do Stevens 44s.  BTW this barrel does need a few thou taken off the breech face to achieve that.  Headspace is then controlled by the depth of the rim recess. 

That should do me for a while.  The elephant's child needs his after-lunch nap.  Wink

Phil
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2017 at 1:34pm by uscra112 »  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style
Reply #17 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 4:29pm
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The breech block should have about .001"-.003" crush between the rear of the barrel, and the square opening in the top of the receiver. But that tail should also make contact at the rear inside the receiver also, as it adds strength to the whole lockup process.
It's an ingenious design Charles Ballard came up with, and I've always marveled at how anyone could picture this all in their mind, and make it actually time correctly and work so well! I think John Dutcher once said he thought Ballard got lucky with some of his design too.
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style
Reply #18 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 4:48pm
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Isn't it the lower face of the breechblock tail that contacts the inside of the receiver giving 3 points of lockup? The block contacting the square edge of the top of the receiver, the tail sitting on the inside bottom of the receiver, and the lever/link contacts.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style
Reply #19 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 5:13pm
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oneatatime wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 4:48pm:
Isn't it the lower face of the breechblock tail that contacts the inside of the receiver giving 3 points of lockup? The block contacting the square edge of the top of the receiver, the tail sitting on the inside bottom of the receiver, and the lever/link contacts.


Yes! The back edge is where the serial numbers are, and should not contact there. That's also the removable tang, and depth of the tang can vary.  It should be the rear lower edge, not back edge.
The top edge behind the jog in the breech block  touches, and will force the tail down to contact the bottom rear of the inside of the receiver. It all happens in perfect timing if properly fitted.
This is a Brown Ballard cutaway drawing, but shows it better than I can explain it:

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uscra112
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Re: Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style
Reply #20 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 6:00pm
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AHA!  I get it.   The idea of preloading the tail downward had escaped me.  Without that, the block will rotate around the linkage on firing, until the tail contacts. Taking up that slack and then stopping it suddenly puts a shock load on the whole arrangement. Never a good thing.

About .003" crush on the breech face seems right.  Same as I do on the Stevens 44s. 

I too marvel at Ballard's intuition.  Some people have the genes for 3D spatial relationships, and he certainly was one.  Richard Feynman in one of his books describes informal experiments he and his pals did at MIT on how people's brains are "wired". 

I want to guess that Ballard had seen the germ of it in another context, and carried it over, but then again....    Something I realized quite a few years ago is that the minds that today are doing recombinant DNA or computer science or nanotechnology  were back then doing mechanism. Can you think of any breech closure arrangement that we have today that wasn't invented in the years from 1850 to 1910?  I can't.  Then think of sewing machines, reapers, steam and gas engines, gearmaking machinery, etc.   

  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style
Reply #21 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 8:01pm
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Couldn't agree more! These types of minds work different, and see things others can't. I'm always infatuated with how they did so, especially since there were no similar examples in other types of equipment that could be reworked to use in firearms.
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Ballard Pacific, Schuetzen Style
Reply #22 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 10:58pm
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the elaborate, very heavy draw-weight, military-type cross bows, in their last phase of evolution before firelocks became common, had some mechanical lock and trigger linkages similar to firearms because of the forces of a 300 or 400 Lb draw-weight from their steel reinforced composite prods.
  

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