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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New .25 Rimfire (Read 4981 times)
willsweptline
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #30 - May 18th, 2017 at 1:48am
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Believe it or not, I didn't have to size the cases at all. After they were cut off and trimmed, they wound up perfect. The bullets didn't fit loose, and weren't so tight they shaved lead. As for the shell holder, it was either one for a .32 acp or a .22 Hornet, I can't remember. I used a 25-20 die run out to seat the bullet. Keep in mind I did pretty much the whole process by hand, and with hand tools. I was basically goofing off, and it just accidentally happened to work. On another note, I tried one of the bullets breech seated with a .27 caliber nailgun blank behind it (the "green" ones, lowest power level available). I wouldn't recommend it. Bullet went hypersonic and it blew stuff back in my face. The gun didn't act happy.
  
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uscra112
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #31 - May 18th, 2017 at 1:50am
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Oh, my.  That .277 is more consistent with the bullet being .257 on the bands, assuming a case wall thickness of .010.

Back in the soup! 

Anyway, thanks again!   

I'm done for the night.  Later.

Phil


  

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JerryH
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #32 - May 18th, 2017 at 7:48pm
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I disassembled one cartridge that had been struck by a firing pin but didn't go off.

The bullet measures .257, is .550 long, and weighs 66gr. It has two grease grooves. The third groove closest to the nose is from me cutting away the crimp with a Dremel tool.

The powder charge weighs 2.5gr.

JerryH
« Last Edit: May 18th, 2017 at 9:08pm by JerryH »  

I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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uscra112
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #33 - May 18th, 2017 at 8:47pm
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Jerry, you are a prince among men.  Thank you again!

The only question left then is; how are people who are using .251 bullets getting any results at all?   

The only original chamber I have to measure will swallow a letter K drill shank with some to spare, so it's bigger than .281". To get any accuracy at all in original chambers, I'd think that the whole body of the .17 WSM would have to be expanded to at least the .277 you measured, and a .257 bullet used. Even at that, it would hardly be comparable to even "sporting" .22 chambers.

Now, where do I go from here?   With minimal reforming, I can get a case that accepts a .251 bullet, and has an O.D of about .272.  I already ordered a .25 Colt liner, .250 groove diameter.  Have a set of .25 ACP dies around here for some unknown reason.  Reamer will be made or bought - a "D" reamer will be easy-peazy, so I'll probably do that.  Ending up with an undersize .25 RF wildcat, having the advantage over .22 in that it will shoot 60-70 grain bullets from its' 14 twist.  Chambered right, it ought to be reasonably accurate.  It won't work with original ammo, but who cares?  There isn't any around anyway.

Long after I'm dead, some collector will look at this rifle and scratch his head.  And I'll be the gnome.  Grin
« Last Edit: May 18th, 2017 at 8:55pm by uscra112 »  

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waterman
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #34 - May 19th, 2017 at 2:21am
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Has anyone a source for .25 cal airgun pellets?  What weights?
  
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uscra112
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #35 - May 19th, 2017 at 2:37am
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waterman wrote on May 19th, 2017 at 2:21am:
Has anyone a source for .25 cal airgun pellets?  What weights?


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don1885
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #36 - May 19th, 2017 at 10:48am
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Try here, they have a large inventory of choices.

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Don
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Dellet
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #37 - May 20th, 2017 at 12:08am
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New guy here that has played with this problem on and off for quite awhile. Came across this post a couple weeks ago searching for other stuff.

Grabbed a box of 17 WSM and went to work.

I did not like the idea of cutting off the case, so pulled the bullets and proceeded to neck up the case. This was a little bit of a problem because the brass is brittle.

What I ended up doing was grabbing a cheap set of numbered drill bits. Started with a #17 (.173") and went to #1(.228") I rounded the back end of the bits.

I also bought a pair of Lee expander pins for .204 and .257 and ground off the decapping pins.

I already had on hand expanding mandrels for neck turning .204 and 6mm.

A separate 3/16 (.187) bit was ground to a long taper.

The neck sizing process was a little time consuming at first, but it's coming together. Because I am using the pins, the drill press is used as an arbor press.

Starting with the smallest tapered mandrel, I basically belled the neck like you would for seating a cast bullet. I would then take 2-3 drill bits and open the rest of the neck.

This has seemed to be the best method so far. I split a lot of necks before working this out. As long as the drill bit is smaller than the bell, it enlarges the rest of the neck. By only going a few thousandths at a time, bell and repeat, I have been able to work all the way up to the .257 sizing stem.

Refinements to the process are coming and any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Tonight I made a shell holder that is basically a keyhole shape in a piece of shallow channel iron. A .335" hole drilled and slotted to a .270" hole. This clamps to the table of the drill press. Drop the brass in the large hole and slide it to the small.

Next is to trim to size. When these are finished sizing they are 1.165", so having a full size round is possible.

I will load and shoot a few of these this weekend and then decide if it it's worth it to make a mandrel to full length size the case.

First shot will be a pulled original bullet loaded into a new case.

Hope that adds to the project. I am excited about being able to shoot a rifle that I have had for more than forty years, without feeling a little guilty every time I pull the trigger.
  
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uscra112
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #38 - May 20th, 2017 at 7:13am
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Same problem here - the brass really doesn't like being expanded.  First mandrel I made split every one.  The multiple stage process looks better.  Will try that later today.

Pulling bullets has been a pain.  I finally worked a way to use my press and a particular set of pliers that get enough grip on the bullet.   

A .22 Hornet shellholder works fine.

Keep at it!


  

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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #39 - May 20th, 2017 at 9:30am
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WAG ... not even a SWAG. Smiley
I wonder if is it possible to clamp them in a collet and spin using a small
ball to move the material out to nominal dia. Control of heat may be a real
problem. It just won't do to pop the primer. Wink

If one could re-prime then it would be obvious to anneal and proceed.

Using the .17 is a great idea. The problem is to make the rework easy.
Still it is much easier than making 25-20SS from 5.56 brass.

Guess the next problem is to look up the properties of priming material and
see if there is a way to salvage from regular primers.
  
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #40 - May 20th, 2017 at 6:47pm
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Primer compound:

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mpound
  
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waterman
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #41 - May 20th, 2017 at 7:19pm
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craigster wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Primer compound:

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mpound



Craig,

What is the stuff?  DuPont chemists work for 20+ years to produce reliable Kleenbore priming.  These guys have chemicals in 2 bags.  Has anybody tried it and looked at a dozen barrels afterward?
  
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uscra112
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #42 - May 20th, 2017 at 10:17pm
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Dellet wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 12:08am:
New guy here that has played with this problem on and off for quite awhile. Came across this post a couple weeks ago searching for other stuff.

Grabbed a box of 17 WSM and went to work.

I did not like the idea of cutting off the case, so pulled the bullets and proceeded to neck up the case. This was a little bit of a problem because the brass is brittle.

What I ended up doing was grabbing a cheap set of numbered drill bits. Started with a #17 (.173") and went to #1(.228") I rounded the back end of the bits.

I also bought a pair of Lee expander pins for .204 and .257 and ground off the decapping pins.

I already had on hand expanding mandrels for neck turning .204 and 6mm.

A separate 3/16 (.187) bit was ground to a long taper.

The neck sizing process was a little time consuming at first, but it's coming together. Because I am using the pins, the drill press is used as an arbor press.

Starting with the smallest tapered mandrel, I basically belled the neck like you would for seating a cast bullet. I would then take 2-3 drill bits and open the rest of the neck.

This has seemed to be the best method so far. I split a lot of necks before working this out. As long as the drill bit is smaller than the bell, it enlarges the rest of the neck. By only going a few thousandths at a time, bell and repeat, I have been able to work all the way up to the .257 sizing stem.

Refinements to the process are coming and any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Tonight I made a shell holder that is basically a keyhole shape in a piece of shallow channel iron. A .335" hole drilled and slotted to a .270" hole. This clamps to the table of the drill press. Drop the brass in the large hole and slide it to the small.

Next is to trim to size. When these are finished sizing they are 1.165", so having a full size round is possible.

I will load and shoot a few of these this weekend and then decide if it it's worth it to make a mandrel to full length size the case..


Well, I made a mandrel to expand to just .185 ID today. As long a taper as I can get into the case.  Rather than bell the mouths, I taper-reamed aggressively with a deburring tool. No joy. Getting 20% yield, 80% split.  Am I still taking too much in one  bite? Not too sanguine at this point about getting a full length case.   Later.
  

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jfeldman
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #43 - May 20th, 2017 at 11:39pm
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Just a thought - would it be possible to stand them in ice water and anneal the necks?  Or insulate the main part of the body some other way?

Regards, Joe
  
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Re: New .25 Rimfire
Reply #44 - May 21st, 2017 at 12:11am
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uscra112 wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 10:17pm:
Well, I made a mandrel to expand to just .185 ID today. As long a taper as I can get into the case.  Rather than bell the mouths, I taper-reamed aggressively with a deburring tool. No joy. Getting 20% yield, 80% split.  Am I still taking too much in one  bite? Not too sanguine at this point about getting a full length case.   Later.
 

I finally got tired of splitting necks and started with a #16 bit which is .177" and worked up every other bit which is about .005" per press. This finally got me 5/5 but took forever. Working on streamlining that.

Not much to show for a lot of labor, but it did work.

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Bullet on the left is a 75 gr Vmax. Pulled Remington and it's case. Vmax loaded in converted case, complete Remington round, donor 17 WSM.

The bulge in the converted case happened when I try to full length size the 17 WSM, apparently the brass gets thicker towards the base. You can also still see a hint of the original shoulder. The loaded round measured .277" at the loaded bullet. The Original measured slightly smaller. The best way would be to say that the needle on the caliper was .277+ on the Vmax, and .277- on the original. I also compared that to late production Canuck with a plated bullet. I believe that these are Smokeless powder, they measure .276".


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Close up of the pulled bullet.

Best I can tell from measurements, this is a bore rider design. I think what people are measuring on a loaded round is the bore rider section at .251-2". This bullet measures .254" after being pulled. Measuring the inside of the case I get .253".

I fired a couple today to check for function and the hope of capturing an intact bullet, Not able to catch one intact. If weather holds tomorrow I hope for better luck.

  
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