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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1919 Denver City Rifle Club (Read 3818 times)
Chuckster
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #15 - May 23rd, 2017 at 11:35am
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Think I figured it out. Beautiful engineering.
Two different thread pitches on the collar. Coarser pitch on the action adapter. Finer on the barrel.
Tightening the collar would pull the barrel in. Loosening would push it out.
Great design and wonderful machining.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #16 - May 23rd, 2017 at 11:42am
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waterman wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 3:08am:
Leonard George Pridy (1883-1940) was a barber in a hotel in Denver.  In 1918, he was employed by William R. Dashler.

He married Evelina J Hedenskog in Denver in 1910. They do not appear to have had any children.  For many years, they lived at 725 25th Street in Denver.

Pridy died of TB in 1940.

It must have taken a lot of haircuts to pay for that set.  As a barber in a downtown hotel, perhaps he had additional sources of income.



Thank you so much Waterman! Terrific info! It is puzzling that a barber could afford such a set, and fitted case with his name on it?
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #17 - May 23rd, 2017 at 11:46am
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Chuckster wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 11:35am:
Think I figured it out. Beautiful engineering.
Two different thread pitches on the collar. Coarser pitch on the action adapter. Finer on the barrel.
Tightening the collar would pull the barrel in. Loosening would push it out.
Great design and wonderful machining.
Chuck 


Yes, you hit it Chuck! Not only different pitches, but also different diameters on the barrel and receiver bushing too. A small void between the two threads in the collar to separate the different diameter and pitch of the halves.
It doesn't fall apart when loosened, but slides quite easily. The Pope book mentions that Claude Roderick didn't know how the system worked when sent info on the gun to him in a letter in 1974.
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #18 - May 23rd, 2017 at 11:47am
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Joe Do... wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 6:48am:
Beautiful set Vall !  I've been watching and waiting to hear about what other have bought at the Denver Gun Show.  I missed it (again) ... <sigh>


It was one of the best so far Joe! I picked up two other neat Ballard rifles, and a pair of Rolling Block Sporting rifles that Ed Curtis had for sale.
  

Vall
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waterman
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #19 - May 23rd, 2017 at 4:03pm
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marlinguy wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 11:42am:
waterman wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 3:08am:
Leonard George Pridy (1883-1940) was a barber in a hotel in Denver.  In 1918, he was employed by William R. Dashler.

He married Evelina J Hedenskog in Denver in 1910. They do not appear to have had any children.  For many years, they lived at 725 25th Street in Denver.

Pridy died of TB in 1940.

It must have taken a lot of haircuts to pay for that set.  As a barber in a downtown hotel, perhaps he had additional sources of income.



Thank you so much Waterman! Terrific info! It is puzzling that a barber could afford such a set, and fitted case with his name on it?


A few times before, we have discussed the income level required to play our game back in the day when our Schuetzens were still with their original owners.  Those guys were well off.  If not today's 1 % then certainly well above 10 %. 

I don't think an ordinary working barber could afford to play that game.  I hinted at that when I wrote "additional sources of income".  That was before Prohibition and back when drugs (opium, cocaine, marijuana) were legal, maybe even sold at the corner pharmacy.  What remains seems to be  gambling & prostitution.  A barber with a gift of gab could easily run such operations out of a hotel. 

Of course, maybe he just listened to what his customers said and played the stock market.

Vall, how much does the whole cased set weigh?  I am curious about the strength of the latches.  Does it have handles?

And now that you might have some suspicions about Mr. Pridy, will you give the rifle a name?  Were it mine, I would call it "The Happy Hooker".

  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #20 - May 23rd, 2017 at 4:10pm
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Val
I forgot to mention at Denver, if you have problems forming brass for the 28 Pope I have a chamber reamer and sizing die for a 30-30 straight taper to 28 cal.  It would likely be very similar to your Pope.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #21 - May 23rd, 2017 at 4:24pm
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Pinwheel wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 4:10pm:
Val
I forgot to mention at Denver, if you have problems forming brass for the 28 Pope I have a chamber reamer and sizing die for a 30-30 straight taper to 28 cal.  It would likely be very similar to your Pope.


Thanks Russ! But the .28-30 in this gun is an oddball. The gun came with a chamber cast, and this .28-30 is based on the .25-35 necked out to .28 caliber! The book on Hartford Pope rifles states this is the only known Pope barrel chambered for this cartridge that is known. So going to have to likely take some .25-35 and expand necks to .28 and see how they fit.
Good to chat with you at Denver! It was fun!
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #22 - May 25th, 2017 at 3:08pm
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Congrats on the find!  Wonderful piece of history!  I wish I would have been able to make it to the show and shoot the stuff with you, oh well see you next year.  Perhaps  I can talk Jon into a roadtrip up to the OCA show, who knows!

Btw Vall, magnet seems strong as ever.....you do a great job of being in the right place at the right time.....reminds me of a quote....appropriately modified...

Texas Jack: Where's Vall..?

Doc Holliday: Down by the creek, walking on water. Wink



  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #23 - May 25th, 2017 at 3:58pm
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oodmoff wrote on May 25th, 2017 at 3:08pm:
Congrats on the find!  Wonderful piece of history!  I wish I would have been able to make it to the show and shoot the stuff with you, oh well see you next year.  Perhaps  I can talk Jon into a roadtrip up to the OCA show, who knows!

Btw Vall, magnet seems strong as ever.....you do a great job of being in the right place at the right time.....reminds me of a quote....appropriately modified...

Texas Jack: Where's Vall..?

Doc Holliday: Down by the creek, walking on water. Wink





Thanks Darin! Sure wish you could have made it also! We had fun at the show, and at dinner Friday night too! Not sure what to think about my good fortune? I was so fortunate last year with the Schoyen Ballard cased rifle. Then finding this Pope the next year seems nuts. But I'll take whatever others pass by anytime!
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #24 - May 29th, 2017 at 6:05pm
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Chuckster wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 11:35am:
Think I figured it out. Beautiful engineering.
Two different thread pitches on the collar. Coarser pitch on the action adapter. Finer on the barrel.
Tightening the collar would pull the barrel in. Loosening would push it out.
Great design and wonderful machining.
Chuck 


Doing some more searching today and found additional info.
HM Pope patented this takedown system in 1888, but I have only seen it once before. In 1895 John Krieger also patented a similar system, and I found both patents to be similar in design, yet the US Patent office issued patent numbers to both HM Pope and JM Krieger.
There were some folks who looked at the set in Denver and thought it was something modern added at a later date. But the patents date to before the outfit was built, and look like they've been there forever, so pretty sure those guessing were guessing wrong.
  

Vall
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Chuckster
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #25 - May 29th, 2017 at 11:37pm
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That is interesting. Would have guessed it was later.
Think the barrel moves by the difference in thread pitch.
Have only seen the technique used on ultra-precision adjustment devices.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #26 - May 30th, 2017 at 1:11am
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I think everyone was guessing it was later too Chuck! Amazing that he was in his mid 20's when he was granted that patent. Not many people that young had such a creative mind!
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #27 - May 30th, 2017 at 11:00am
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Vall,
I'm late to this thread!

Now, your going to make me go to your OAC gun show again, just to see it Smiley

Frank
  

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Chuckster
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #28 - May 30th, 2017 at 11:55am
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The real question is how he made the machine cut for the lug on the threaded portion of the barrel.
The threaded portion of the barrel must be a separate piece, maybe soldered in place.
All together, an ingenious design.
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #29 - May 30th, 2017 at 1:51pm
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Chuckster wrote on May 30th, 2017 at 11:55am:
The real question is how he made the machine cut for the lug on the threaded portion of the barrel.
The threaded portion of the barrel must be a separate piece, maybe soldered in place.
All together, an ingenious design.
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Chuck


If I was guessing, I'd say the barrel was threaded to accept the threaded piece. So internally and externally threaded to secure it. Same as the piece on  the receiver that is externally threaded to match Ballard receiver threads, and then also threaded to accept the locking collar.
Page 494-495 of the Hartford Pope books shows the patent, and patent drawing in great detail. But no notes stating anything else about Pope's design. Seems a shame they didn't address the patent, but maybe because nobody ever examined this system.
I looked at Terry Buffum's before it went to Amoskeag, but never took it down to know what it looked like internally. I would hope there might be others beyond these two Pope rifles that utilize the takedown system!
  

Vall
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