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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1919 Denver City Rifle Club (Read 3813 times)
marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #30 - May 30th, 2017 at 1:52pm
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frnkeore wrote on May 30th, 2017 at 11:00am:
Vall,
I'm late to this thread!

Now, your going to make me go to your OAC gun show again, just to see it Smiley

Frank


Frank, you would really enjoy the August two day show! It's 4x as big as our monthly show, with a lot of out of state antique arms vendors!
  

Vall
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J Louis
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #31 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:22pm
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Thanks Russ! But the .28-30 in this gun is an oddball. The gun came with a chamber cast, and this .28-30 is based on the .25-35 necked out to .28 caliber! The book on Hartford Pope rifles states this is the only known Pope barrel chambered for this cartridge that is known. So going to have to likely take some .25-35 and expand necks to .28 and see how they fit.


Vall this appears to be same case we have been calling a 28-35SS not knowing it was an original traditional cartridge established by Pope.

JLouis

  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #32 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:48pm
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J Louis wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:22pm:
Vall this appears to be same case we have been calling a 28-35SS not knowing it was an original traditional cartridge established by Pope.

JLouis



Yes John. Claude Roderick's notes from back in 1975 come from a letter Ed  Buessler of Spring Grove, Ill. wrote to Roderick describing the set, and the Pope .28 caliber barrel. He sates, "The Pope is a .28 on a blown out .25-35. This is not a cartridge configuration that appears anywhere else in the database and it's origin was unknown to Buessler."
Roderick goes on to explain the unique Pope barrel that uses a Pope bullet starter, without a false muzzle. The bullet is seated directly into the bore without a false muzzle. It would seem the .28-35SS that you fellas are shooting is a direct descendant of this old Pope barreled rifle! Sounds pretty traditional.
  

Vall
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J Louis
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #33 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 6:16pm
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Thanks Vall it is amazing what unkowns still turn up with a little research if one like yourself has the heart to puruse it. Not only have I remained silent on your purchase for my own reasons it also seems to be the only known unique Pope take down system known to be in current existence. You are also the one I find to be the more deserving to come by it and now to own it in my book. Now that you have it documented as being of Pope's making I also find it to be extremely priceless and a very well deserved find.

JLouis

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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #34 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 9:32pm
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Here's a picture of the chamber cast, and one piece of fired brass that came with the Pope Ballard, John. You might just make out the index mark on the edge of the rim on that case. Also the case was built from a .30-30 R-P case necked down.
Unfortunately no tools for this barrel to form cases. The other two barrels came with old Winchester 1882 and 1884 tools for the .32-40 and .22WCF.

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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #35 - Jul 7th, 2017 at 7:26pm
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Just an update. I was looking for this picture and finally found it in the Nov. 21, 2015 Amoskeag Fall auction. This Ballard belonged to my friend Terry and I remember seeing it before it went to auction, and thinking the takedown system was odd? But it's the twin to the system on my 3 barrel set!

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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #36 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 5:31pm
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Still chasing provenance on the Pope Ballard 3 barrel set. I have Pope's patent drawings, and patent application for this takedown system. I also have a good friend who is an engineer and machinist, and he dissected the takedown system to see how it worked, and what thread(s) it used. He determined the tapered tang moved .036" as the threads are either tightened or loosened to remove the barrel. This gradual movement unseats the barrel when loosened to allow it to slide freely from the receiver.
I also have gathered much more info on Leonard George Priday of Denver, Co. and his time with this set. LG Priday was a member of the 1919 Denver Rifle Club team that set the new world record for high team score in 1919. The team's world record was used in Remington ads that year to promote their ammunition. The score was 9956 out of a possible 10,000 points. Not sure if this record was ever beaten?
Still trying to find info on the last owner, who had this set for over 40 years. I know his first name was Walter, and possibly last name was Stern. He retired after 40 years as a Cal Poly professor at the Sam Luis Obispo, Ca. campus. Haven't been able to find out anything on a Walter Stern from that area, or any relationship to Cal Poly Engineering?
I have come up with some more bits and pieces that went with the gun, but nothing to add provenance to it.
  

Vall
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #37 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 9:16pm
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thinking about barbers in the early days in Denver and similar western towns.   During the mining boom days every one was trading in shares on mine claim shares.
A smart barber with a little money to invest wisely who kept his mouth shut and his ears open would probably acquire more than a little inside information on when and what to buy and more importantly when to sell and what.======today it might be called "insider trading"  but in those days to was just smart investing.

just a bit of guessing as an alternative to pimping or shilling.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #38 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 1:35am
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Walter Stern was born in Germany in January 1928.  He became a naturalized citizen in 1985.  He lived in CA & WA, listed in several major cities but without any dates, probably 1980-2000. 

Stern would have been 17 when the war ended.  Probably he was some sort of low-ranking conscript.  As a guess, undergraduate & post-graduate work in some sort of engineering in West Germany, came to US as a visiting professor.  Never returned to Germany.  I have only begun to dig into Herr Dr. Stern.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #39 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 11:01am
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 9:16pm:
thinking about barbers in the early days in Denver and similar western towns.   During the mining boom days every one was trading in shares on mine claim shares.
A smart barber with a little money to invest wisely who kept his mouth shut and his ears open would probably acquire more than a little inside information on when and what to buy and more importantly when to sell and what.======today it might be called "insider trading"  but in those days to was just smart investing.

just a bit of guessing as an alternative to pimping or shilling.


Guessing LG Priday was either a very good barber, or as you guessed, he branched out. He eventually opened up his own salon, which tells me he came into some money somehow other than barbering.
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #40 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 11:06am
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waterman wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 1:35am:
Walter Stern was born in Germany in January 1928.  He became a naturalized citizen in 1985.  He lived in CA & WA, listed in several major cities but without any dates, probably 1980-2000. 

Stern would have been 17 when the war ended.  Probably he was some sort of low-ranking conscript.  As a guess, undergraduate & post-graduate work in some sort of engineering in West Germany, came to US as a visiting professor.  Never returned to Germany.  I have only begun to dig into Herr Dr. Stern.


Thanks for that info! Way more than I could find!
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #41 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 3:38pm
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I think I just watched you in a youtube video at a gathering where there were several Ballards. A very interesting gathering indeed! What was it? Only Ballard I have is one in 32 long that has been lined and is now a 32 S/W. Fun little gun to shoot and inexpensive to boot. Please keep us informed on your new find and good luck.


JMH


  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #42 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 4:26pm
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jhm wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
I think I just watched you in a youtube video at a gathering where there were several Ballards. A very interesting gathering indeed! What was it? Only Ballard I have is one in 32 long that has been lined and is now a 32 S/W. Fun little gun to shoot and inexpensive to boot. Please keep us informed on your new find and good luck.

JMH


Thanks! Yes, that is our annual get together fun shoot. We call it the Happenz, and the video was made at the 7th get together. My friend Wind (who started the Happenz) asked if I'd mind setting up a Ballard display, so I brought some of my Ballard schuetzen rifles.
This is always a fun event, and I enjoy answering questions on schuetzen rifles to whoever is willing to hear me drone on about them. Another friend videos all the things that go on at each Happenz, and does an outstanding job of documenting each year's events.
We have a group of about 15-20 guys who show each year, but always happy to see new faces and get them on the dingers at various ranges! All cast bullet shooting, but the type of gun doesn't matter. Getting more single shots these days, but used to be more lever guns.
I took one of my Ballard rifles in .32 Long a couple years ago, and had it hitting the 450 yd. dinger with some helpful spotting and coaching from the fellas!
  

Vall
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J Louis
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #43 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 5:02pm
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Vall I did not see anyone using Vintage style Optics are they not allowed.

JLouis
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #44 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 6:02pm
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J Louis wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 5:02pm:
Vall I did not see anyone using Vintage style Optics are they not allowed.

JLouis


We only have a couple rules John. Be safe, and use cast bullets. The reason vintage optics aren't mor epopular is most mounts run out of elevation long before your gun can get past 300 yds.
I did take some shots with my old guns that have old scopes, but I was playing around aiming at brush, or sticks above the targets to see if I could hit. The field of view is another issue, so each shot aimed has to find the target first, then try to move up and over to account for bullet drop and wind drift. Just much easier to do the elevation with a long range vernier, and then estimate the wind drift and hold off.
The most popular sight I see used is the MVA 107 vernier tang sight. I'd guess I'm one of the few using original vintage tang sights.
  

Vall
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