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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1919 Denver City Rifle Club (Read 3810 times)
marlinguy
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1919 Denver City Rifle Club
May 22nd, 2017 at 2:59pm
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Just picked up a pretty nifty 3 barreled Pope Ballard set in Denver. The owner's name on the case is "L G Pridy" and he was a member of the Denver Rifle Club US top scoring team that year. Arms and the Man lists him, and the team's winning score as 9936. His scores show in the 198.3 to 200 point ranges.
Wondering if anyone can add any info on L G Pridy, or the 1919 Denver, Co. rifle team?

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #1 - May 22nd, 2017 at 4:15pm
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Very very nice Val!
What model Ballard action was used for the rifle?

Looking forward to hearing a full report on the show if you don't mind.
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #2 - May 22nd, 2017 at 4:22pm
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Great set, Did you talk to John Dutcher at the show about him ? if anyone would know he would be the one.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #3 - May 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm
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LRF wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 4:15pm:
Very very nice Val!
What model Ballard action was used for the rifle?

Looking forward to hearing a full report on the show if you don't mind.


Appears to be a non engraved #6 action and lever. Sent you a PM on all the great rifles I found there!
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #4 - May 22nd, 2017 at 6:23pm
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Tom_Trevor assra life no.71 wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 4:22pm:
Great set, Did you talk to John Dutcher at the show about him ? if anyone would know he would be the one.


Yes Tom I did. John is a real detective and said he'd heard someone bought this set, and when I told him it was me he asked to come and look at it. He said he didn't recognize the name, but added he doesn't know every Denver City Gun Club name. He is going to send me whatever info he can find in his records, but said it may be little or none.
It appears from numerous "Arms and the Man" articles I found that Pridy was quite possibly the best shooter on the DCGC team. His scores were always listed at the top. I love provenance and a good hunt, so hope to find more!
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #5 - May 22nd, 2017 at 6:48pm
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could we get some details on the barrel collar. does the Pope bbl screw into the action and the 2 other bbls use the adapter ?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #6 - May 22nd, 2017 at 7:38pm
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scharfe wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 6:48pm:
could we get some details on the barrel collar. does the Pope bbl screw into the action and the 2 other bbls use the adapter ?


No, all three barrels have the same knurled/threaded locking collar, and the receiver and barrels have a matching fine thread. The receiver has an adapter to avoid altering the Ballard receiver threads. The inside is similar to a Morris taper like a lathe or drill press uses, with a "key" to index each barrel upright. The fit is amazing, and even with the knurled collar loose, the barrel has no movement in the action. The collar is equipped with a hole, and a spanner wrench accompanies the set to tighten or loosen the collar.
This gun, with all three barrels is listed in Warren Greatbatch's book, "HM POPE HARTFORD 1887-1901" page 200. Notes say "it is not clear from the description how this arrangement worked?" I can tell you it works very well, and took a master tool an die maker to engineer it!

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #7 - May 22nd, 2017 at 8:11pm
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Another amazing find!!
My dream is to have 1 Pope barrel.
What calibers are the barrels?
Aaron
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #8 - May 22nd, 2017 at 8:34pm
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Nice set, can't wait to see a side view assembled to see what the forearms look like. Here is a Denver Medal (1893) won by a John Dean.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #9 - May 22nd, 2017 at 9:03pm
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bnice wrote on May 22nd, 2017 at 8:34pm:
Nice set, can't wait to see a side view assembled to see what the forearms look like. Here is a Denver Medal (1893) won by a John Dean.


Oh boy! That's a pretty neat medal!

The forearms are all clearanced inside to allow the knurled collar to turn, and the forearm to fit against the receiver as they would on standard rifles. So other than seeing the top half of the collar, the rest is hidden when assembled.
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #10 - May 22nd, 2017 at 9:10pm
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Very nice rifle.  It possess some questions. Looking at the bottom photo I would say the top barrel with the butt stock was a 22 gallery set.  The next barrel down is the center fire that goes with the re-depriming tool and lube pump.  The bottom barrel looks like the offhand 22 barrel.
Now my questions. Is there a single trigger plate for gallery shooting?  Is the c.f. barrel false-muzzled and did you get the mold?
Det
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #11 - May 22nd, 2017 at 10:27pm
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Barrels are .32-40, .28 Pope Special, and a .22WCF. No RF barrels.

Top barrel-.32-40
Middle barrel (no wood)-.28 Pope Special
Bottom-.22WCF

Inside the compartment is a slender forearm to fit the middle .28 Pope barrel.

The Pope book says this ".28 Pope Special" is a necked out .25-35, and a caliber not listed in Pope's catalog. Also not seen in any other Pope barrel.
The .28 Pope is fitted with a Pope bullet starter that does not use a false muzzle. Claude Roderick's notes say the starter is cut smaller to fit the barrel, and he saw no sign of it every having a false muzzle.
No bullet molds, but did get bullets. Unknown what they were cast from?
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #12 - May 23rd, 2017 at 3:08am
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Leonard George Pridy (1883-1940) was a barber in a hotel in Denver.  In 1918, he was employed by William R. Dashler.

He married Evelina J Hedenskog in Denver in 1910. They do not appear to have had any children.  For many years, they lived at 725 25th Street in Denver.

Pridy died of TB in 1940.

It must have taken a lot of haircuts to pay for that set.  As a barber in a downtown hotel, perhaps he had additional sources of income.
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #13 - May 23rd, 2017 at 6:48am
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Beautiful set Vall !  I've been watching and waiting to hear about what other have bought at the Denver Gun Show.  I missed it (again) ... <sigh>
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #14 - May 23rd, 2017 at 10:42am
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Vall, Very, very nice set. Fascinating method to change barrels. Superb machining.
Self locking tapers like that usually have to be bumped pretty firmly to remove. Wonder how it is done.
Chuck
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #15 - May 23rd, 2017 at 11:35am
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Think I figured it out. Beautiful engineering.
Two different thread pitches on the collar. Coarser pitch on the action adapter. Finer on the barrel.
Tightening the collar would pull the barrel in. Loosening would push it out.
Great design and wonderful machining.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #16 - May 23rd, 2017 at 11:42am
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waterman wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 3:08am:
Leonard George Pridy (1883-1940) was a barber in a hotel in Denver.  In 1918, he was employed by William R. Dashler.

He married Evelina J Hedenskog in Denver in 1910. They do not appear to have had any children.  For many years, they lived at 725 25th Street in Denver.

Pridy died of TB in 1940.

It must have taken a lot of haircuts to pay for that set.  As a barber in a downtown hotel, perhaps he had additional sources of income.



Thank you so much Waterman! Terrific info! It is puzzling that a barber could afford such a set, and fitted case with his name on it?
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #17 - May 23rd, 2017 at 11:46am
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Chuckster wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 11:35am:
Think I figured it out. Beautiful engineering.
Two different thread pitches on the collar. Coarser pitch on the action adapter. Finer on the barrel.
Tightening the collar would pull the barrel in. Loosening would push it out.
Great design and wonderful machining.
Chuck 


Yes, you hit it Chuck! Not only different pitches, but also different diameters on the barrel and receiver bushing too. A small void between the two threads in the collar to separate the different diameter and pitch of the halves.
It doesn't fall apart when loosened, but slides quite easily. The Pope book mentions that Claude Roderick didn't know how the system worked when sent info on the gun to him in a letter in 1974.
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #18 - May 23rd, 2017 at 11:47am
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Joe Do... wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 6:48am:
Beautiful set Vall !  I've been watching and waiting to hear about what other have bought at the Denver Gun Show.  I missed it (again) ... <sigh>


It was one of the best so far Joe! I picked up two other neat Ballard rifles, and a pair of Rolling Block Sporting rifles that Ed Curtis had for sale.
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #19 - May 23rd, 2017 at 4:03pm
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marlinguy wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 11:42am:
waterman wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 3:08am:
Leonard George Pridy (1883-1940) was a barber in a hotel in Denver.  In 1918, he was employed by William R. Dashler.

He married Evelina J Hedenskog in Denver in 1910. They do not appear to have had any children.  For many years, they lived at 725 25th Street in Denver.

Pridy died of TB in 1940.

It must have taken a lot of haircuts to pay for that set.  As a barber in a downtown hotel, perhaps he had additional sources of income.



Thank you so much Waterman! Terrific info! It is puzzling that a barber could afford such a set, and fitted case with his name on it?


A few times before, we have discussed the income level required to play our game back in the day when our Schuetzens were still with their original owners.  Those guys were well off.  If not today's 1 % then certainly well above 10 %. 

I don't think an ordinary working barber could afford to play that game.  I hinted at that when I wrote "additional sources of income".  That was before Prohibition and back when drugs (opium, cocaine, marijuana) were legal, maybe even sold at the corner pharmacy.  What remains seems to be  gambling & prostitution.  A barber with a gift of gab could easily run such operations out of a hotel. 

Of course, maybe he just listened to what his customers said and played the stock market.

Vall, how much does the whole cased set weigh?  I am curious about the strength of the latches.  Does it have handles?

And now that you might have some suspicions about Mr. Pridy, will you give the rifle a name?  Were it mine, I would call it "The Happy Hooker".

  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #20 - May 23rd, 2017 at 4:10pm
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Val
I forgot to mention at Denver, if you have problems forming brass for the 28 Pope I have a chamber reamer and sizing die for a 30-30 straight taper to 28 cal.  It would likely be very similar to your Pope.
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #21 - May 23rd, 2017 at 4:24pm
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Pinwheel wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 4:10pm:
Val
I forgot to mention at Denver, if you have problems forming brass for the 28 Pope I have a chamber reamer and sizing die for a 30-30 straight taper to 28 cal.  It would likely be very similar to your Pope.


Thanks Russ! But the .28-30 in this gun is an oddball. The gun came with a chamber cast, and this .28-30 is based on the .25-35 necked out to .28 caliber! The book on Hartford Pope rifles states this is the only known Pope barrel chambered for this cartridge that is known. So going to have to likely take some .25-35 and expand necks to .28 and see how they fit.
Good to chat with you at Denver! It was fun!
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #22 - May 25th, 2017 at 3:08pm
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Congrats on the find!  Wonderful piece of history!  I wish I would have been able to make it to the show and shoot the stuff with you, oh well see you next year.  Perhaps  I can talk Jon into a roadtrip up to the OCA show, who knows!

Btw Vall, magnet seems strong as ever.....you do a great job of being in the right place at the right time.....reminds me of a quote....appropriately modified...

Texas Jack: Where's Vall..?

Doc Holliday: Down by the creek, walking on water. Wink



  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #23 - May 25th, 2017 at 3:58pm
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oodmoff wrote on May 25th, 2017 at 3:08pm:
Congrats on the find!  Wonderful piece of history!  I wish I would have been able to make it to the show and shoot the stuff with you, oh well see you next year.  Perhaps  I can talk Jon into a roadtrip up to the OCA show, who knows!

Btw Vall, magnet seems strong as ever.....you do a great job of being in the right place at the right time.....reminds me of a quote....appropriately modified...

Texas Jack: Where's Vall..?

Doc Holliday: Down by the creek, walking on water. Wink





Thanks Darin! Sure wish you could have made it also! We had fun at the show, and at dinner Friday night too! Not sure what to think about my good fortune? I was so fortunate last year with the Schoyen Ballard cased rifle. Then finding this Pope the next year seems nuts. But I'll take whatever others pass by anytime!
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #24 - May 29th, 2017 at 6:05pm
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Chuckster wrote on May 23rd, 2017 at 11:35am:
Think I figured it out. Beautiful engineering.
Two different thread pitches on the collar. Coarser pitch on the action adapter. Finer on the barrel.
Tightening the collar would pull the barrel in. Loosening would push it out.
Great design and wonderful machining.
Chuck 


Doing some more searching today and found additional info.
HM Pope patented this takedown system in 1888, but I have only seen it once before. In 1895 John Krieger also patented a similar system, and I found both patents to be similar in design, yet the US Patent office issued patent numbers to both HM Pope and JM Krieger.
There were some folks who looked at the set in Denver and thought it was something modern added at a later date. But the patents date to before the outfit was built, and look like they've been there forever, so pretty sure those guessing were guessing wrong.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #25 - May 29th, 2017 at 11:37pm
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That is interesting. Would have guessed it was later.
Think the barrel moves by the difference in thread pitch.
Have only seen the technique used on ultra-precision adjustment devices.
Chuck
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #26 - May 30th, 2017 at 1:11am
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I think everyone was guessing it was later too Chuck! Amazing that he was in his mid 20's when he was granted that patent. Not many people that young had such a creative mind!
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #27 - May 30th, 2017 at 11:00am
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Vall,
I'm late to this thread!

Now, your going to make me go to your OAC gun show again, just to see it Smiley

Frank
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #28 - May 30th, 2017 at 11:55am
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The real question is how he made the machine cut for the lug on the threaded portion of the barrel.
The threaded portion of the barrel must be a separate piece, maybe soldered in place.
All together, an ingenious design.
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #29 - May 30th, 2017 at 1:51pm
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Chuckster wrote on May 30th, 2017 at 11:55am:
The real question is how he made the machine cut for the lug on the threaded portion of the barrel.
The threaded portion of the barrel must be a separate piece, maybe soldered in place.
All together, an ingenious design.
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If I was guessing, I'd say the barrel was threaded to accept the threaded piece. So internally and externally threaded to secure it. Same as the piece on  the receiver that is externally threaded to match Ballard receiver threads, and then also threaded to accept the locking collar.
Page 494-495 of the Hartford Pope books shows the patent, and patent drawing in great detail. But no notes stating anything else about Pope's design. Seems a shame they didn't address the patent, but maybe because nobody ever examined this system.
I looked at Terry Buffum's before it went to Amoskeag, but never took it down to know what it looked like internally. I would hope there might be others beyond these two Pope rifles that utilize the takedown system!
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #30 - May 30th, 2017 at 1:52pm
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frnkeore wrote on May 30th, 2017 at 11:00am:
Vall,
I'm late to this thread!

Now, your going to make me go to your OAC gun show again, just to see it Smiley

Frank


Frank, you would really enjoy the August two day show! It's 4x as big as our monthly show, with a lot of out of state antique arms vendors!
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #31 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:22pm
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Thanks Russ! But the .28-30 in this gun is an oddball. The gun came with a chamber cast, and this .28-30 is based on the .25-35 necked out to .28 caliber! The book on Hartford Pope rifles states this is the only known Pope barrel chambered for this cartridge that is known. So going to have to likely take some .25-35 and expand necks to .28 and see how they fit.


Vall this appears to be same case we have been calling a 28-35SS not knowing it was an original traditional cartridge established by Pope.

JLouis

  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #32 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:48pm
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J Louis wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 5:22pm:
Vall this appears to be same case we have been calling a 28-35SS not knowing it was an original traditional cartridge established by Pope.

JLouis



Yes John. Claude Roderick's notes from back in 1975 come from a letter Ed  Buessler of Spring Grove, Ill. wrote to Roderick describing the set, and the Pope .28 caliber barrel. He sates, "The Pope is a .28 on a blown out .25-35. This is not a cartridge configuration that appears anywhere else in the database and it's origin was unknown to Buessler."
Roderick goes on to explain the unique Pope barrel that uses a Pope bullet starter, without a false muzzle. The bullet is seated directly into the bore without a false muzzle. It would seem the .28-35SS that you fellas are shooting is a direct descendant of this old Pope barreled rifle! Sounds pretty traditional.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #33 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 6:16pm
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Thanks Vall it is amazing what unkowns still turn up with a little research if one like yourself has the heart to puruse it. Not only have I remained silent on your purchase for my own reasons it also seems to be the only known unique Pope take down system known to be in current existence. You are also the one I find to be the more deserving to come by it and now to own it in my book. Now that you have it documented as being of Pope's making I also find it to be extremely priceless and a very well deserved find.

JLouis

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #34 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 9:32pm
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Here's a picture of the chamber cast, and one piece of fired brass that came with the Pope Ballard, John. You might just make out the index mark on the edge of the rim on that case. Also the case was built from a .30-30 R-P case necked down.
Unfortunately no tools for this barrel to form cases. The other two barrels came with old Winchester 1882 and 1884 tools for the .32-40 and .22WCF.

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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #35 - Jul 7th, 2017 at 7:26pm
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Just an update. I was looking for this picture and finally found it in the Nov. 21, 2015 Amoskeag Fall auction. This Ballard belonged to my friend Terry and I remember seeing it before it went to auction, and thinking the takedown system was odd? But it's the twin to the system on my 3 barrel set!

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #36 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 5:31pm
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Still chasing provenance on the Pope Ballard 3 barrel set. I have Pope's patent drawings, and patent application for this takedown system. I also have a good friend who is an engineer and machinist, and he dissected the takedown system to see how it worked, and what thread(s) it used. He determined the tapered tang moved .036" as the threads are either tightened or loosened to remove the barrel. This gradual movement unseats the barrel when loosened to allow it to slide freely from the receiver.
I also have gathered much more info on Leonard George Priday of Denver, Co. and his time with this set. LG Priday was a member of the 1919 Denver Rifle Club team that set the new world record for high team score in 1919. The team's world record was used in Remington ads that year to promote their ammunition. The score was 9956 out of a possible 10,000 points. Not sure if this record was ever beaten?
Still trying to find info on the last owner, who had this set for over 40 years. I know his first name was Walter, and possibly last name was Stern. He retired after 40 years as a Cal Poly professor at the Sam Luis Obispo, Ca. campus. Haven't been able to find out anything on a Walter Stern from that area, or any relationship to Cal Poly Engineering?
I have come up with some more bits and pieces that went with the gun, but nothing to add provenance to it.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #37 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 9:16pm
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thinking about barbers in the early days in Denver and similar western towns.   During the mining boom days every one was trading in shares on mine claim shares.
A smart barber with a little money to invest wisely who kept his mouth shut and his ears open would probably acquire more than a little inside information on when and what to buy and more importantly when to sell and what.======today it might be called "insider trading"  but in those days to was just smart investing.

just a bit of guessing as an alternative to pimping or shilling.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #38 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 1:35am
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Walter Stern was born in Germany in January 1928.  He became a naturalized citizen in 1985.  He lived in CA & WA, listed in several major cities but without any dates, probably 1980-2000. 

Stern would have been 17 when the war ended.  Probably he was some sort of low-ranking conscript.  As a guess, undergraduate & post-graduate work in some sort of engineering in West Germany, came to US as a visiting professor.  Never returned to Germany.  I have only begun to dig into Herr Dr. Stern.
  
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #39 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 11:01am
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 9:16pm:
thinking about barbers in the early days in Denver and similar western towns.   During the mining boom days every one was trading in shares on mine claim shares.
A smart barber with a little money to invest wisely who kept his mouth shut and his ears open would probably acquire more than a little inside information on when and what to buy and more importantly when to sell and what.======today it might be called "insider trading"  but in those days to was just smart investing.

just a bit of guessing as an alternative to pimping or shilling.


Guessing LG Priday was either a very good barber, or as you guessed, he branched out. He eventually opened up his own salon, which tells me he came into some money somehow other than barbering.
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #40 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 11:06am
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waterman wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 1:35am:
Walter Stern was born in Germany in January 1928.  He became a naturalized citizen in 1985.  He lived in CA & WA, listed in several major cities but without any dates, probably 1980-2000. 

Stern would have been 17 when the war ended.  Probably he was some sort of low-ranking conscript.  As a guess, undergraduate & post-graduate work in some sort of engineering in West Germany, came to US as a visiting professor.  Never returned to Germany.  I have only begun to dig into Herr Dr. Stern.


Thanks for that info! Way more than I could find!
  

Vall
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #41 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 3:38pm
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I think I just watched you in a youtube video at a gathering where there were several Ballards. A very interesting gathering indeed! What was it? Only Ballard I have is one in 32 long that has been lined and is now a 32 S/W. Fun little gun to shoot and inexpensive to boot. Please keep us informed on your new find and good luck.


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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #42 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 4:26pm
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jhm wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
I think I just watched you in a youtube video at a gathering where there were several Ballards. A very interesting gathering indeed! What was it? Only Ballard I have is one in 32 long that has been lined and is now a 32 S/W. Fun little gun to shoot and inexpensive to boot. Please keep us informed on your new find and good luck.

JMH


Thanks! Yes, that is our annual get together fun shoot. We call it the Happenz, and the video was made at the 7th get together. My friend Wind (who started the Happenz) asked if I'd mind setting up a Ballard display, so I brought some of my Ballard schuetzen rifles.
This is always a fun event, and I enjoy answering questions on schuetzen rifles to whoever is willing to hear me drone on about them. Another friend videos all the things that go on at each Happenz, and does an outstanding job of documenting each year's events.
We have a group of about 15-20 guys who show each year, but always happy to see new faces and get them on the dingers at various ranges! All cast bullet shooting, but the type of gun doesn't matter. Getting more single shots these days, but used to be more lever guns.
I took one of my Ballard rifles in .32 Long a couple years ago, and had it hitting the 450 yd. dinger with some helpful spotting and coaching from the fellas!
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #43 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 5:02pm
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Vall I did not see anyone using Vintage style Optics are they not allowed.

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #44 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 6:02pm
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J Louis wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 5:02pm:
Vall I did not see anyone using Vintage style Optics are they not allowed.

JLouis


We only have a couple rules John. Be safe, and use cast bullets. The reason vintage optics aren't mor epopular is most mounts run out of elevation long before your gun can get past 300 yds.
I did take some shots with my old guns that have old scopes, but I was playing around aiming at brush, or sticks above the targets to see if I could hit. The field of view is another issue, so each shot aimed has to find the target first, then try to move up and over to account for bullet drop and wind drift. Just much easier to do the elevation with a long range vernier, and then estimate the wind drift and hold off.
The most popular sight I see used is the MVA 107 vernier tang sight. I'd guess I'm one of the few using original vintage tang sights.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #45 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 6:10pm
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Thanks Vall I thought there might not be enough elevation adustments prior to posting without having to change scope block heights.

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #46 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 7:06pm
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Thanks for the reply and the info on your meet. Wish we had something like that here(Georgia)but if it isn't a "black gun" seems most folks are not interested. Looking at the videos it looks like a blast especially the expressions on peoples faces when they have a hit..... We did have a buffalo match at my club but it kinda went away for lack of interest. Again keep us posted.
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #47 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 7:12pm
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I do have one old full length scope that I put MVA long range mounts on, and haven't tried it at our fun matches yet. It's on a Ballard in .44 Long, and should have quite an arc to the bullet's flight as I load a 240 gr. bullet to around 1250 fps.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #48 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 7:17pm
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jhm wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 7:06pm:
Thanks for the reply and the info on your meet. Wish we had something like that here(Georgia)but if it isn't a "black gun" seems most folks are not interested. Looking at the videos it looks like a blast especially the expressions on peoples faces when they have a hit..... We did have a buffalo match at my club but it kinda went away for lack of interest. Again keep us posted.


We've had guys come from the East Coast to shoot. One fried is from South Carolina and coms every year. He has his guns and ammo shipped out, and then rents a U Haul van and sleeps in it each night. A couple guys from New Jersey last year who came out, and a couple more from Texas. More people show up from far away than from within 500 miles! I'm one of the closer ones, as it's an 8 hour drive for me.
Lots of fun if you ever get the itch to travel and make it out some time! You sure wont regret it! But you'll likely put on 10 lbs. the way we cook for each other!
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #49 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 7:23pm
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Well it seems I've been chasing my tail a bit, and wasted "waterman's" assistance too! The last name of Walter was not "Stern", but rather "Stier"!
Got an email today confirming the last name and quickly Googled it to find an obituary, and a lot of his history.

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No mention of Walt being a shooter, so nothing to go along with this gun's history in that direction. Still a good amount of history.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #50 - Aug 15th, 2017 at 9:19am
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Vall's Scheutzen Ballard display was breathtaking, and very cool to hear the depth of knowledge that Vall has. His passion really comes out when he's talking about Ballards.

And I did put on 5 pounds this year at Happenz, even with trying to eat lightly.
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #51 - Aug 15th, 2017 at 10:48am
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I will soon receive 40 years of Walter's load data for the Pope set, along with a large quantity of brass, and loading components! Still need to get dies for the .22 barrel that turned out to be .218 Bee, and not .22WCF.
  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #52 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:22pm
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marlinguy wrote on Aug 15th, 2017 at 10:48am:
I will soon receive 40 years of Walter's load data for the Pope set, along with a large quantity of brass, and loading components! Still need to get dies for the .22 barrel that turned out to be .218 Bee, and not .22WCF.



A monumental day for me today! The two binders of Walter Stier's work came today! (20 lbs. worth!) Had little certain knowledge of what might be in the two volumes, and didn't want to get my hopes up and be disappointed. But it seems whatever hopes I had were much lower than what I discovered upon opening his binders!
There's a lot here to be discovered, and I'll be weeks absorbing most of it, and some of it I'll never understand! Walter being an engineer, had an engineer's mind working when he worked up his loads. The ballistic tables and math are over the top, and just amaze me that someone took so much interest and spent so much time calculating and drawing graphs, and such for every caliber he had!
Another discovery that wasn't a surprise, is Walt was an owner of a fair number of guns! I found data for probably a dozen calibers or more, and both rifle and pistol calibers! In the larger binder I also found numerous receipts for guns dating from the 1960's up to 1980's. Some used, and some new, like a C Sharps 1874 in .45-70 purchased for @$540 new. And it appears Walter also had a Ballard in .40-90 Ballard, as he did load data for it also, with BP and Pyrodex!
That same larger binder contains a huge assortment of catalogs, articles, and computer data he worked up. It also contains original letters from names like Charles Huntington, son of Fred Huntington when Fred was owner of RCBS. Letters from others also, and copies of letters he sent out to well known gun writers.
Going to have to try and figure some of this stuff out, as the math might require a consultation with another engineer! Walter did love his ballistics, and calculated bullet's flight, recoil, and other things for every caliber he shot!!
« Last Edit: Aug 28th, 2017 at 6:08pm by marlinguy »  

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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #53 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:49pm
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Vall, Vall, Vall! When you fall into it you fall in a really big way! Way to go.
  
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Re: 1919 Denver City Rifle Club
Reply #54 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 6:07pm
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oneatatime wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:49pm:
Vall, Vall, Vall! When you fall into it you fall in a really big way! Way to go.


Thanks Chauncey! I also found a gun inventory sheet in one of the two binders with about 30 guns listed. Top of the sheet is the Pope set. Lower down is a '66 Henry in .44 Rimfire. A couple drillings, double rifles, a Westley Richards SxS, some old Colt SAA.
  

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