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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Old optics (Read 3187 times)
marlinguy
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Old optics
Jun 17th, 2017 at 2:48pm
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Picked up an old long range target scope while at the Denver gun show last month. It is a 33 power, and was used for 800-1000 yd. long range matches. They were made in 1892, and many were damaged or lost during WWI as they were used by artillery troops during the first World War.
Even less of the compact tripods for prone shooting survived. Since they were made mostly of wood, they did not survive the rigors of war time use. This one is complete with it's tripod, and optics are in splendid condition! Really pleased to have found it, and it will make a nice display telescope to accompany my #7 Long Range Ballard in .44-100 Bal.

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Extended length is about 42".

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Vall
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GT
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Re: Old optics
Reply #1 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:13pm
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That's something!!! All the cool stuff falls your way,  Roll Eyes I didn't see/notice that there. Sad   
So according to what I remember these would have come around shortly after they moved from Creedmore to Sea Girt and the military had their fingers in it? 
Nice find!
  

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J Louis
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Re: Old optics
Reply #2 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:17pm
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Vall are there any markings stating who made it. Its a first for me what an amazing find and it will indeed compliment your rifle display very nicely.

JLouis
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Old optics
Reply #3 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:27pm
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J Louis wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:17pm:
Vall are there any markings stating who made it. Its a first for me what an amazing find and it will indeed compliment your rifle display very nicely.

JLouis


There are no maker's marks John, but it has a serial number and is French built. Most of these long range spotting scopes from the 1800's were French.
Had a gentleman come by my table right after I purchased it, and asked if he could look it over. I knew very little at purchase, but he seemed to be quite expert at these. He looked it over, and looked at the serial number. Then he began to get excited and asked me how I came by it, and when I told him I'd just purchased it, and the seller had told me he bought scope and tripod separately, he was amazed! He said that not only was it the correct tripod for the scope, but they were 1892 French vintage. He also told me the tripod was far more valuable than the scope, although both were very desirable.
I just thought it was pretty neat, and very affordable, and fell in love with it.
  

Vall
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Flatlander
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Re: Old optics
Reply #4 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 9:00pm
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Vall:

Was this a Friday or Saturday purchase? Most of the really fine stuff friends wound up with were bought on Friday. I didn't make it until Saturday this year and feel I missed out on quite a lot. Will know better for next year.

Flatlander
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Old optics
Reply #5 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:13am
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Flatlander wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
Vall:

Was this a Friday or Saturday purchase? Most of the really fine stuff friends wound up with were bought on Friday. I didn't make it until Saturday this year and feel I missed out on quite a lot. Will know better for next year.

Flatlander


This was a Friday before the show opened purchase.
  

Vall
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Joe Do...
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Re: Old optics
Reply #6 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:25am
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Nice work Vall.  ... very nice purchase!  Michael Petrov had one of these in his gunroom when I was liquidating.  Like everything else, I listed it on eBay before realizing its importance in creedmoor and long-range matches.

The scopes show up on eBay periodically but I have never seen an original tripod.  ... very cool !

... Joe
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Old optics
Reply #7 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 12:32pm
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Joe Do... wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:25am:
Nice work Vall.  ... very nice purchase!  Michael Petrov had one of these in his gunroom when I was liquidating.  Like everything else, I listed it on eBay before realizing its importance in creedmoor and long-range matches.


... Joe


Don't believe that at such long-range matches, the individual shooter was ordinarily doing his own spotting--his team-mate did so from some position other than laying prone on the ground, as is usually done at BPCR matches today.  Here's one of the many Harper's prints depicting shooting at Creed's Moor.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Old optics
Reply #8 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 12:55pm
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Redsetter wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 12:32pm:
Joe Do... wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 11:25am:
Nice work Vall.  ... very nice purchase!  Michael Petrov had one of these in his gunroom when I was liquidating.  Like everything else, I listed it on eBay before realizing its importance in creedmoor and long-range matches.


... Joe


Don't believe that at such long-range matches, the individual shooter was ordinarily doing his own spotting--his team-mate did so from some position other than laying prone on the ground, as is usually done at BPCR matches today.  Here's one of the many Harper's prints depicting shooting at Creed's Moor.


A long range shooter during a match would never use the short tripod, as spotting for himself would be a distraction. But in practice a shooter would always need a short tripod, as getting up and down to check his hits would be a real pain. A shooter would never use a tall tripod for practice.
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: Old optics
Reply #9 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 10:42am
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J Louis wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:17pm:
Vall are there any markings stating who made it. Its a first for me what an amazing find and it will indeed compliment your rifle display very nicely.

JLouis


I'm a bit embarrassed, as I thought I'd looked this old scope over quite well! But this morning I was looking it over again and found the maker's rollstamp! The rollstamp reads as follows:

SELSI
E. VION PARIS
RIFLE RANGE TELESCOPE
Power 33 Times
Made in France

From what I've found, Selsi-E. Vion was not importing scopes into the US until the post WWI era. And before WWII the company name changed to simply "SELSI". Then after WWII the company no longer made their scopes in France, and instead had them built in Japan.
They also made scopes for maritime and astrological use. Since this one is marked, "RIFLE RANGE TELESCOPE" it's obvious it's a long range spotting scope, and not for other use.
  

Vall
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rkba2nd
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Re: Old optics
Reply #10 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 4:07pm
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marlinguy-just for your information, I have a leather covered draw tube telescope marked:  BUSCH /  SELSI / RIFLE RANGE / 35X / GERMANY. It is a much later telescope, I am guessing sometime between the wars. I do use it when shooting single shots at the range, as it just seems to fit. The optics are amazingly good. Yours is a very nice find indeed.  best regards Krag



  

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marlinguy
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Re: Old optics
Reply #11 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 4:56pm
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Is your BUSCH-SELSI a 5 segment scope? I found reference to a Busch-Selsi when trying to find more data on mine. Not sure if the responder was correct (it was the internet!) but he said it was around WWII or after.
  

Vall
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rkba2nd
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Re: Old optics
Reply #12 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 4:52pm
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marlinguy- Yes it is five segments, and although I didn't measure the length, I would guess about three to three and one half feet. The objective lens is about two inches, and the exit pupil a whopping 3/32 or so. Not exactly a night vision device, but as I said before, the optics are very good. Some years ago I compared the resolution capabilities of a number of optics using Wally Siebert's method using a newspaper. This scope and a pre-war Zeiss zielacht rifle scope held their own with some more modern well known optics. Best of luck in your search for more information and history. Krag
  

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Re: Old optics
Reply #13 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 4:57pm
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rkba2nd,
Please tell us about the news paper test.

Frank
  

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rkba2nd
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Re: Old optics
Reply #14 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 5:08pm
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marlinguy- as an addendum, I obtained the scope from a gentleman who told me that he bought it back east in the late thirties. I have no way to verify that as it was in the late sixties. Krag
  

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