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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) cc johnson rifle (Read 4695 times)
fullchoke
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cc johnson rifle
Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:18pm
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Hello, I'm new to this site and have a few questions about this rifle that I recently bought. I sent an inquiry to JC Johnson about it and I have a few general questions I would like to post here. It is a Winchester High Wall with a heavy bull barrel that has M-BEE stamped on the barrel. The second line says CC Johnson in smaller letters. Is it correct to believe that the rifle is chambered for the Mashburn Bee?
The woodworking on the rifle is unique and I would not want to replace it, but would I devalue the rifle if I had it worked on to give it a better fit and finish? Right now woodwork doesn't come close to matching the metal work quality. I'm not sure yet what can be done. I bought this rifle because I liked the look of it and  want to keep it period correct. I'm new to collecting anything like this and I'm not sure how important originally is on a custom rifle from a renown gunsmith. Originality is important to me and I don't want to compromise it, but the woodwork is crude and I think it detracts from the rifle. What do you guys think?
I also would like to find out more about CC Johnson and the rifles he built. Were the rifles totally custom order or were they made up customized actions and then made to fit the buyer? I was thinking it would be interesting to see if there were other rifles made like this one.
Thanks for your thoughts and responses!
  
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westerner
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #1 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:33pm
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Welcome to the forum. Without a picture we are blind.


           Joe.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:14pm
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fullchoke wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:18pm:
...the woodwork is crude and I think it detracts from the rifle.


Sounds more like some previous owner's do-it-yourself job, in which case replacing the wood constitutes no crime.
  
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scharfe
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:47pm
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welcome. lots of info here, and great people too.
  
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Mike65
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:00pm
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Welcome.

I think that you'll find with a few searches here on the forum that CC seldom, if ever, did any woodwork at all and it was farmed out to others.  CC concerned himself with the metal work only and did lots of re-line jobs.

Mike
  

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cleanprone
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:32pm
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CC Johnson rifles are not common but Ohio probably has more than most areas.  A friend has two, Lo-Wall and Hi-Wall,  beautifully stocked in classic style.  My Lo-Wall Hornet has 4-groove cut rifled barrel, very heavy most likely by Charlie Diller, and very accurate.  The rifle has straight grain walnut in varmint style, probably Fajen.  Metal work superb.  Wood is plain and well fitted.  I'm using a 2 inch 12X Unertl Ultra-Varmint, calibrated head and get a lot of interest when I get to the range.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:36pm
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You'll never hurt any old gun by making amateurish wood fitting look better! If you can do so without replacing the stocks, you'll save money. But if you have to replace them, then it still wont hurt the value if they're poorly fitted.
The real value in the gun you own is the barrel and action. If the wood was nicely fitted, and high quality, then I'd say making repairs need to be done carefully to keep the gun's history. But sounds like that's not the case here.
  

Vall
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fullchoke
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 6:29pm
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Thanks guys for the welcome.
I have read online that the woodworking on CC Johnson rifles was noticeably inferior to the metal work. Maybe CC Johnson sold barreled actions and the stocking could be done by the customer. The metal work was prepared for the stock that is on it. I will try to get some pictures.

Thanks again
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:09pm
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I had a CC Johnson High Wall in .22LR once, and the custom stocks were the nicest job I've ever owned on a custom single shot. Typical "varmint rifle" style of the 40's or 50's, but very high grade wood, and wonderful fleur de lis pattern, and finely checkered. I wish I'd never let it go, but I was transfixed on schuetzen style single shots, and it didn't fit my collection.
Unsure if CC Johnson did much stock work, but sure his nephew could answer that question.

What part of Oregon are you located? I'm in East Portland.
  

Vall
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fullchoke
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:29pm
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Tualatin area
  
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FITZ-G
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #10 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 8:11pm
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fullchoke, when CC Johnsons nephew showed up here announcing he had the Shop notes. He said what he needed was information stamped on the Barrel under the Forend. From this he could document year of change and caliber and some other matter that I do not recall at this time. I own two CC Jonson barreled
rifles, one a Borchardt in 22-3000 sleeved by him. I removed the sleeve and found it had been soldered into an original Sharps .45 caliber bore. It was or is bright and nearly perfect so we sleeved the Chamber back to .45 X 2 4/10" and it became a very good shooter. The other is also a 22-3000 but was a fresh barrel I have done nothing with yet. I am not sure but at some point I heard he had transferred his shop notes to the ASSRA archives. Worth asking the Archivist. He will generate copies of Data for a minimal price. HTH Regards,
FITZ-G. Smiley
  
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uscra112
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #11 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:47pm
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fullchoke wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 6:29pm:
Thanks guys for the welcome.
I have read online that the woodworking on CC Johnson rifles was noticeably inferior to the metal work. Maybe CC Johnson sold barreled actions and the stocking could be done by the customer. The metal work was prepared for the stock that is on it. I will try to get some pictures.
Thanks again


Reaching back into memory of articles I've read about Johnson, I have the impression that he did not do any woodwork himself.  Either farmed it out or left it to the customer. 

Charles Landis in his book "Twenty Two Caliber Varmint Rifles" mentions that, in the heyday of the .22 Lovell, he was putting out over 200 barrel jobs a year, so I'm inclined to think that he would not have had time to do wood as well.
  

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cleanprone
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #12 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 10:06pm
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Nice article in ASSRA journal about ten years back re:  CC Johnson which states he did no wood work.  Not handy right now but will post date.  Believe grandson has shop notes and he follows this forum, he needs a work number from the rifle, mine is stamped on the bottom tang.  I believe the notes include date, work performed.
  
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fullchoke
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #13 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 12:33am
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There is a number under the forearm. It includes numbers and letters. I sent that to JC Johnson. I was thinking it might be a date code of some sort. I don't see a serial # on the rifle. The number is normally on the lower tang on a High Wall, but that area was worked on and I don't see a complete number.
I'm glad the stock was not part of his work as I want that worked on or replaced.

Thanks
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: cc johnson rifle
Reply #14 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 9:38am
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fullchoke,
We have our OAC collector gun show this coming Sunday morning, so if you get out early you could bring it by the show? It's 7:00 a.m. to 11:30 a.m.
I have a couple tables there every month, and will have a small Rolling Block display this Sunday. $3 entry, and free parking, so well worth the drive from Tualatin.
Directions can be found in the OAC link at the bottom of my posts.
  

Vall
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