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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens Favorite (Read 3935 times)
uscra112
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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #30 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 1:38pm
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desert-dude wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 10:45am:
I've seen a Favorite that was chambered for 25-20. I assume it was the WCF
but didn't ask. It was in a gunsmith's shop for a second try at the breechblock.
The replacement block was 4140 and it failed so that certainly sets a point to avoid.
The 25-20 SS has about half the breechthrust so that MIGHT be an alternative.

A nice project for someone would be to make a nice alloy ( 4140 or 8620 ) version of the whole action.  It would be a labor of love since one certainly couldn't make it
pay.


I seem to recall from Grant that there was a Ladies Model on the Favorite action that was .25-20SS. 

John Taylor has posted a photo of a 44 breechblock that pulled apart at the pivot eye.  This should not happen, and won't if the breechblock sets back far enough that it is in solid contact with the frame shoulders when the action is closed.  Better material won't solve this problem, but it can't hurt.  I'd love to see the trigger and hammer made of tool steel and through-hardened, like the Page-Lewis.  The case-hardened Stevens parts wear, and the trigger pull goes to heck, or the hammer won't stay cocked at all.  Ditto the link, which is the weak spot in the whole design.  But whittling the frame from solid 4140 seems to me to be major overkill.      
« Last Edit: Aug 4th, 2017 at 1:48pm by uscra112 »  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #31 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 2:32pm
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It's all, wishfull thinking but, 2 things that would bring it up to small CF strength, would be 5/16 pressfit pins and a full rolling block type hammer, that goes under the BB, 1/4 to 3/8's, using a new BB, possibly one like Rodney made for the 44's. I don't know if the Favorite pin geometery would allow the RB type hammer to work though.

I kike the PL action better, gets the hammer out of the way of the cleaning rod and could (if it isn't) be made to cock on closing like a HW.

Frank
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #32 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 3:05pm
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frnkeore wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 2:32pm:
I kike the PL action better, gets the hammer out of the way of the cleaning rod and could (if it isn't) be made to cock on closing like a HW.

Frank


Cock on closing is what I don't like about the Win. SS!
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #33 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 3:21pm
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frnkeore wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 2:32pm:
It's all, wishfull thinking but, 2 things that would bring it up to small CF strength, would be 5/16 pressfit pins and a full rolling block type hammer, that goes under the BB, 1/4 to 3/8's, using a new BB, possibly one like Rodney made for the 44's. I don't know if the Favorite pin geometery would allow the RB type hammer to work though.

I kike the PL action better, gets the hammer out of the way of the cleaning rod and could (if it isn't) be made to cock on closing like a HW.

Frank


5/16 pins, Frank?  I think maybe you meant 5/32". 

Yes, a lugged hammer could be made to work in a Favorite. It would IMHO need a breechblock machined to have some meat for the lug to bear upon. 

I'm fond of the Page-Lewis action, too.  But it needs a stronger barrel attachment design.
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #34 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 4:02pm
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My 1885 HW has a second de-cocking fly on the full cock notch so the hammer drops on cocking. It can be disconcerting if you are not used to it.  I have thousands and thousands of rounds through it with no issues.

Jack
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #35 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 5:34pm
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uscra112 wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 3:21pm:
frnkeore wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 2:32pm:
It's all, wishfull thinking but, 2 things that would bring it up to small CF strength, would be 5/16 pressfit pins and a full rolling block type hammer, that goes under the BB, 1/4 to 3/8's, using a new BB, possibly one like Rodney made for the 44's. I don't know if the Favorite pin geometery would allow the RB type hammer to work though.

I kike the PL action better, gets the hammer out of the way of the cleaning rod and could (if it isn't) be made to cock on closing like a HW.

Frank


5/16 pins, Frank?  I think maybe you meant 5/32". 

Yes, a lugged hammer could be made to work in a Favorite. It would IMHO need a breechblock machined to have some meat for the lug to bear upon. 

I'm fond of the Page-Lewis action, too.  But it needs a stronger barrel attachment design. 


No, I mean two .3125 dowel pins, with a .0005 press fit in the action and a .001 slip fit, for both hammer and BB, combined with a 5/8, threaded shank.

You want it to not loosen and I think that would handle it, long term, using the 25/20SS.

Do the same thing to the 44 but, use 3/8 pins and limit it to the 357 Mag/Max case head, using BP pressure/velocitys.

Frank
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #36 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 7:33pm
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Interesting that the bottom front of that experimental block has the same radiused profile as the 44 1/2 (0-44 1/2) block.
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #37 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 8:21pm
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Frank, I have to suggest that there's a better way.

The first Model 44 that I rehabbed, I did just that.  Breechblock pivot pin a press in the frame, slip fit on the breechblock.  Ditto the lever pivot. But reaming the BB out left less metal around the hole to carry the tension load, and that bothered me.  It was a long time before I realized that that's bassackwards.  The breechblock pivot should be loose enough that the block can move to the rear until the shoulders bear.   I'm attaching two force resolution diagrams that Chuck Dietz did a couple of years ago, for the case where the shoulders don't bear, and the case where they do bear.   Notice that in the first case the breechblock pivot takes a huge tension load, but in the second case it takes next to nothing.

Setting up the action, you first have to determine whether the breechblock can contact the frame shoulders. Fiddle the pivot until it does. Then tighten up the toggle linkage.  Last, fit the barrel so that on lockup the breechblock wedges tightly between the barrel face and the shoulders.  I like about .003" interference at the barrel face.   
 
The Favorite is just a scaled-down Model 44, and sets up the same way.

And do it all to a 1915, because the link is much stronger, being so much thicker.

Phil
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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #38 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 8:48pm
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  Very cool! Thank you for sharing that! I am enlightened! Smiley
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #39 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 9:11pm
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Yes indeed and by far the better way!

JLouis
  
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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #40 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 9:56pm
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Glad to be of service.  Just as a validation, a while ago I was doing initial testing of a 44 chambered .25-20SS that I'd set up that way, and managed to fire a double charge of AA#9 in it.  Embarrassed  Aside from having to drive the case out with a cleaning rod, there was no damage to the rifle.  Quickload said 80,000 psi, and the Crony agreed with the calculated velocity.  The link in that one is heat treated 0-2.  The standard link probably would not have come through so well. 

If a 1915 Favorite were set up that way, with the barrel threaded in, I'd be much less apprehensive about the O.P.'s plan to barrel one for .17HMR.


 
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #41 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 12:37pm
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This is what I had in mind.

The red lines are extentions to the hammer. The hammer with be full width of the BB from the red line down to the pivot and would look much the same as a RB hammer does. The brown line, is the axis between the C/L of the bore and the hammer pivot, a much more direct path.

This eleminates the linkage, taking most of the pressure at a acute angle. The linkage, then becomes a support to stabilize the bridge between the two 5/16 pins (front pivot pin and bb pin).

The hammer might have to be cocked, before opening the BB if, the link couldn't be made to move it, the required amount or, it could be made to open like a Bullard.

Chuck, thank you VERY much, for the time you spent, drawing these diagrams.

Frank
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #42 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 2:33pm
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For reference, here's the third of Chuck's force resolution diagrams, showing the lugged hammer.
  

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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #43 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 2:55pm
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You are welcome, but Phil drew the picture. I just put numbers on it.
Note there is still significant vertical load on the pivot pin. Just oversizing the hole could cause problems.
Chuck
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Re: Stevens Favorite
Reply #44 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 4:23pm
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That hammer spur (lug) is true genious.....I like it a lot.....It can beef up the action immensely.
  
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