Page Index Toggle Pages: [1]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Value of Ballard engraved #6 action (Read 1881 times)
bohemianway
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 383
Location: Andover, MN
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Aug 13th, 2017 at 8:53am
Print Post  
When visiting my home town in Wisconsin the LGS had this and has not dreampt up a price. But I am looking for insight in case I missed something. Details: A.W.Peterson bbl which unfortunately has a dozen screw holes in the top including in the Peterson stamp with a mediocre bore (offset chamber), a stock with horrendous carving and forearm is very poorly fit, interesting but plate that has elevation adjustment (Peterson?), and a brass palm rest hardware (Peterson?), lever has several holes in it (assume from previous finger lever modification, otherwise action is in good shape with no finish.

Now, how much should it be? My guess is the uninformed LGS is going to go to the web and decide it is worth $5k. My thought is $1,200 since essentially all but the action goes in the trash.

Thank you,
Charles
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 3532
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #1 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 9:26am
Print Post  
My guess is it will bring $3000.  There's a jack for every Jill.

40 Rod

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bent_Ramrod
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 815
Location: Southern Arizona
Joined: Feb 8th, 2006
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #2 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 10:09am
Print Post  
Some proud owner is going to say:  "I have the best ugly gun in town!"
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
J Louis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 3312
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #3 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:20am
Print Post  
I think there might be more value to it than meets the eye. I have seen another similar to it in a past ASSRA Journal and the work may have been done by the same person. When one zooms in and looks at the quality of the wood it is of the highest quality and the craftsman behind it might be highly noted. I will try to find that article when time allows. If memory serves me right the lever inserts were also a singnature of his work.

JLouis
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 7516
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #4 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:25pm
Print Post  
I'd buy every one like that I could find at $1200and be tickled! In fact I'd be tickled to get them for $1,000 more than that for one like that. I think that looking at it as just a factory engraved, forged, double set trigger action, with ivory insert in the #6 lever, would make it a $1500 action alone. If it wasn't engraved, or if the engraving was non factory, then the action would be much less, and closer to your $1200 guess.
I don't find the stocks ugly, or something like Bubba or Harlow would build. They aren't typical American style, but are very well carved, and appealing as old craftsmanship to me. But I like unique examples of old schuetzen rifles, and have always wanted an American rifle done in European style.
All the extra holes in the barrel are fixable, and I've dealt with them before on guns. The last Schoyen I bought had 6 extra holes, and 3 extra dovetails. But I filled them all, and polished out the barrel, and rust blued it. They are almost invisible now. And a good engraver can touch up the AW Peterson rollstamp too. If the bore is no good, I'd spin it off and save the barrel. But if it's shootable I'd keep it on that Ballard, as it's original to the rework most likely. Some may not like it, but it is single shot history as reworked, and should be retained if possible.
Start adding up the wood, palm rest, and the AW Peterson barrel, and I can't imagine it wont get the $3k that 40rod mentioned. If you get it, and decide to use the action; drop me a line and we'll work out a deal on the rest of the parts!
  

Vall
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 7516
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #5 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:31pm
Print Post  
PS- On the subject of the action having "no finish". Ballard engraved actions almost always had less case color when new. I believe the factory did something different with engraved actions, to ensure the engraving was not harmed during casehardening. I've owned minty versions of engraved and non engraved Marlins, and always seen much less color on engraved guns vs. non engraved guns.
  

Vall
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
s.s.jeff
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 11
Location: Appleton
Joined: Aug 13th, 2006
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #6 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:46pm
Print Post  
Carved stock looks very similar to the style on Hubalek Rifles
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
J Louis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 3312
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #7 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:00pm
Print Post  
In regards to the poor fit of the forearm what exactly does that pertain too? If it is just the gap between the forearm and action it is correct for best accuracy and thus would have been purposely done.

JLouis
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 7516
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #8 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:09pm
Print Post  
J Louis wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:00pm:
In regards to the poor fit of the forearm what exactly does that pertain too? If it is just the gap between the forearm and action it is correct for best accuracy and thus would have been purposely done.

JLouis


Never see that on original Ballard rifles, but several custom built Ballards I have that were done by highly regarded old time gunsmiths have that feature. They also will usually omit the dowel on the back of the forearm that fit into the hole in the receiver, to further separate the forearm from the receiver contact.
  

Vall
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
J Louis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 3312
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #9 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:37pm
Print Post  
When one looks closely at the fit of the butt stock to the action and the butt plate to the stock it would be hard to imagine the forearm would have a sloppy fit to the barrel and what prompted me to bring it up. The more I look at it the more I think it something special but I could be wrong. The wood surely does not belong in the trash all though it is not to my own personal tastes and it was surely not done by Harlow but someone very talented from what little I can see of the details in the pictures.

JLouis
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jy3855
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 342
Location: California
Joined: Jul 13th, 2015
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #10 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 4:33pm
Print Post  
Well, I was holding my tongue, as a Ballard and other antique rifle newby, but I'm glad that I am not the only person that quite enjoys the look of the rifle. Vall said it much better than I would have, but I'd be tickled pink to own that rifle.

I was thinking about volunteering to keep the wood out of the trash, but Vall has beat me to it, besides, it would look out of place on my rag-tag No. 2.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cleanprone
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 24
Joined: Dec 17th, 2015
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #11 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 4:52pm
Print Post  
The stock doesn't seem that different than the Schoyen/Petersen stocks I've seen in the Tom Rowe website, and the wood is really laid out so as to retain strength and showplace the figure.  Don't know why the Ballard 6 buttplate was replaced, maybe to match the brass in the palm rest furniture, one certainly doesn't need more drop in that stock.. Any #6 Ballard is a find, and so many were customized.  My #6 is in the early German style (sn 24XX)  with no engraving and straight octagonal barrel; it is reportedly in .40/60 Ballard Everlasting and may be the only #6 in that caliber.  I've been using hand turned cases.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 7516
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #12 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 6:47pm
Print Post  
cleanprone wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 4:52pm:
Any #6 Ballard is a find, and so many were customized. My #6 is in the early German style (sn 24XX) with no engraving and straight octagonal barrel; it is reportedly in .40/60 Ballard Everlasting and may be the only #6 in that caliber. I've been using hand turned cases.


Yes, a #6 that was customized is pretty common to  find, and originals are tough to find. My #6 was rebarreled by Zettler Bros., and is a .22 Short now, with a match chamber. Also offset to use the CF firing pin to strike the RF case. Mine still has the #6 stock and buttplate, but different forearm with Win. tuning fork palm rest, and Stevens scope in Pope rings.
  

Vall
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bnice
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 971
Location: Iowa
Joined: Nov 30th, 2006
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #13 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 7:02pm
Print Post  
I like it! Nice wood, the carving reminds me of a Hubleck that Gary Quinlin had a Vegas several years back. Very nicely done. It appears eclectic with the ivory insert and shiney barrel. Also palm rest swell needs better wood to match but nice rifle. I'm with Val I would pay way more then $1200. By the way what is it chamber in?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schutzenbob
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1173
Location: Nightingale, California
Joined: Oct 24th, 2005
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #14 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:20pm
Print Post  
Actually, the rifle appears to be a very nice custom Ballard, and although the stock carving is not to my taste, I could get use to it. I seem to remember that Earl Heinz has a Ballard with a similar stock, and oak leaves. These are pics of an A. Hubalek Ballard;
« Last Edit: Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:35pm by Schutzenbob »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 7516
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #15 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 10:39am
Print Post  
bnice wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 7:02pm:
I like it! Nice wood, the carving reminds me of a Hubleck that Gary Quinlin had a Vegas several years back. Very nicely done. It appears eclectic with the ivory insert and shiney barrel. Also palm rest swell needs better wood to match but nice rifle. I'm with Val I would pay way more then $1200. By the way what is it chamber in?


Since he mentioned an "offset bore" I'd assume it's either .22 Short or .22LR.
  

Vall
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bnice
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 971
Location: Iowa
Joined: Nov 30th, 2006
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #16 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 4:41pm
Print Post  
Sorry I read that and forgot, yes 22 (short or LR)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
J Louis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 3312
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #17 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 7:44pm
Print Post  
The article I thought was in the Journal was not the article I was thinking of. All though it resembles Carl B Wazac's stock work he is more renowned for his Naked Lady stocks and not the Ivory lever inserts that points to the one I am still looking for.
The Naked Lady carving is mentioned in the May / June 2013 Vol. 66, No.3 of the ASSRA Journal for those who might be interested starting on page 7 as well as being the cover photo. If you happen to have that issue what you also might interesting is the barrel tuning abilties and the same basic concept that Freeland used so it could also tend to make one wonder about the timeline on that specific feature as well.

JLouis
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40-82Hepburn
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 630
Location: new jersey
Joined: Feb 18th, 2008
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #18 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 7:59pm
Print Post  
This is the Edsel of Ballards, a special rifle that needs to be preserved.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
J Louis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 3312
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #19 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 8:14pm
Print Post  
Amen 40-82 that has been my thoughts as well right out of the gate. I was talking with a friend earlier about this rifle and I asked him how he would feel if he were to take the wood off throw it in the trash to only get the action. And then to find out at a later date it was very unique and done by someone very note worthy and thus having substantial collector value.

JLouis
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schutzenbob
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1173
Location: Nightingale, California
Joined: Oct 24th, 2005
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #20 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 9:54pm
Print Post  
Another Oak Leaf Ballard; from "The Breech-loading Single Shot Match Rifle" by Roberts and Waters on page 98.
« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2017 at 2:22pm by Schutzenbob »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 7516
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #21 - Aug 15th, 2017 at 10:35am
Print Post  
Schutzenbob wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 9:54pm:
Another Oak Leaf Ballard;


I like that one too! Just unusual enough to make it interesting. And I like the fact they both have slender forearms, and not some big beavertail style forearm.
  

Vall
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40-82Hepburn
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 630
Location: new jersey
Joined: Feb 18th, 2008
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #22 - Aug 15th, 2017 at 10:39am
Print Post  
"Another Oak Leaf Ballard"

A very elegant Ballard, what do you know about this one?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cleanprone
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 24
Joined: Dec 17th, 2015
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #23 - Aug 15th, 2017 at 2:12pm
Print Post  
Isn't that the "chin rest" Pope Ballard from the Pope book by Smith?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bohemianway
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 383
Location: Andover, MN
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #24 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 11:38am
Print Post  
Price has been set at $2,800 so I am not interested. However, if anyone is look up Total Defense (mntotaldefense.com) who has it on consignment. I do not see it on their site but call them to inquire. (763) 432-6134

Charles
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
QuestionableMaynard8130
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4102
Location: Berrien Springs, MI
Joined: Apr 17th, 2004
Re: Value of Ballard engraved #6 action
Reply #25 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 11:51am
Print Post  
High quality florid oak leaf carving is very traditional on Germanic originals more than half of mine have oak leaves--some more some less. I'd suspect a Germanic origin stock-maker if not the gunsmith/builder and the initial customer having "old-country" tastes if not values.   I'd think it well worth that price--and more to a Ballard collector.
  

sacred cows make the best burger
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 
Send TopicPrint