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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Thinking about switching Lathes (Read 4131 times)
shovel80
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #15 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 10:52pm
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I like my 11" Logan...but, it is only 24" between centers.
If I did it again, I'd go at least 36" Between Centers!

Terry Smiley
  

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kensmachine
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #16 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:44pm
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nothing wrong with South Bend's plain bearings there just not a High speed lathe and the bearings must be adjusted right .
In a south Bend I would look for a heavy 10  or a 13" maybe a 14 1/2.
In a sheldon a 12" or 13" or the top of the line 13"R series but there are rare. I have a 15" R series I have had it a few years it's still not up and running. It's  got 10 gears in the feed box that are dead it's such a nice lathe I think it had the gears in the feed box get crashed when it was near new .   and it was so well equipped and was so cheap I could not pass it up.
Logans I have had 3 12" lathes didn't like any of them none of them stuck around long one was a step pulley machine rare in this series 2 where  VS machine. but a lot of people that have them Love them I don't
had a few Clausing 5900 I like that they have a clutch for the spindle. I have a Clausing Colchester 13" X 40" 8000 series lathe it's been in the shop for 20 years + if I were looking for a lathe this is the one I would look for 1 1/2 spindle bore Inch metric threading clutched spindle gear head speeds to 2500 rpm 2000 lbs + down side any Parts cost both nuts and an arm. Ken
  
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GT
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #17 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:23am
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Boats,
I have some real strong opinions about machine tools, I make my living with them.  You never mentioned what your budget is or what your usage is, I'm guessing you spend quite a bit of time doing different projects and such? 
I started with some Asian brands when my business was part time, progressed to some European and lighter American made, eventually to Old Heavy American Iron.  This trait has carried over to my hobby machines as well.  I have a half dozen CNC's and about 25 manual machines.  I run mostly Monarch's, Cincinnati, American, Bridgeport and Giddings & Lewis now.
The last lathe you'd ever have to buy for gun work would be a Monarch 10EE - 12x22.  People say they are too difficult for the hobbyist to set up but if you have 220v single phase, know a little about electricity, (or someone) a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) makes these a real sweetheart.  Bear in mind, they are an unbelievable piece of American craftsmanship and for as small as they are, weigh as much as your car...  Once you run one, everything else comes in second place.  Just my 2 cents.
Greg
  

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Chuckster
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #18 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 10:25am
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Agree with GT. After using several lathes, came to the conclusion that bigger is better.
Small parts are no problem on a larger lathe. Larger parts, like actions, are easier.
Use a Clausing 1500 (14 X 48"). Had to replace the seals in the variable speed pistons, otherwise no problems.
Headstock is too long for most barrels but the lathe large enough to turn a cat-head, which solves the problem.
Believe a collet attachment (5C or similar) is a requirement for any lathe.
Chuck
  
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boats
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #19 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:42am
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Good idea for me to set my constraints, keep from running down false paths. Thinking as I type here.

Basement shop is 24 L 28 W in two bays 24 x 12.  One bay is served by a ground level door I can roll my 4x8 1000  lb. capacity utility trailer in & that's how I will pick  one up. Lathe has to go there in the spot my Atlas occupies now, easy to get one in and unloaded either top lift from the floor joist above or with a neighbors Bobcat, fork lift blades fitted.

Atlas on its stand takes about 4x3 Ď with foot or so open space tailstock side. 3 feet open head stock side. So 1000 lbs. max little bigger than 4 x 3 footprint.  220 Single Phase. All my machinery is big & old American. Imports are great and good value. I donít have any.

However I am thinking little smaller or the same size & more precise. I donít plan to do any Barrel work.  Not objecting to large bore though, who knows I may want to learn to fit barrels one day. 

I do a lot of cartridge case work and repair all my machinery recently overhauled a Ponsness Warren Shot shell loader making a few of the parts. Use the Atlas to make metal parts needed for Wood Lathe projects too. From Canes and Walking sticks to Fishing rods to very large Lamp Post.  My wood lathe is a real big Powermatic.  Recently my son has been using the Atlas for pen work. Not kits, he turns Fountain Pens from Scratch. Ink leak proof, out of Ebonite. Threads the parts with taps and dies lathe mounted, In theory you could internal thread a pen body on the lathe but most pen makers use taps and dies.


Real constraint is looking before I buy. EBay has a viery nice looking Rockwell 10 inch model 25-700 with some tooling for 2500 dollars. Listed by the owner not a junk dealer and within my Budget. Itís in Fort Worth Texas Thousand miles from me.  Drive there find out itís not as good as the photos would be a problem.  So 1 days  drive from SE Virginia is about my limit, unless I can find somebody near to check one out for me.   Then 2 days drive would be OK. I want top condition no project lathes reason for looking carefully.

There are a lot of lathes for sale, not so many that suit my needs

Boats

  
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craigd
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #20 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:35pm
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You mentioned 220 single phase as one of the considerations. It was mentioned earlier, but you may not have to rule out a lathe with a 3ph motor. Variable frequency Drives run 3ph motors off of single phase lines. I've purposely bought three phase motors for a couple of tools because of vfd speed control and good torque at low rpm's. Sometimes, a machine can be set up for the top speed that you want when the vfd is set a 100%, then use the vfd to change speeds.

I've noticed good machinery can sit collecting dust  because no one wants to mess with 3ph. If you do go the vfd route, consider a nema 4 housing, it keeps the grit out of nooks and crannies. Only a thought, sorry if you were already aware of it.
  
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boats
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #21 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:59pm
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Craig that's true and my Son just set up 3 phase with a converter in his home shop. He was reluctant to go that route because of the cost but found a nice drill press that was priced to leave room for the converter.

Good thought I had not considered.
  
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craigd
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #22 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:18pm
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Just in case. A VFD and a 1ph to 3ph converter are not the same thing. I can't say I've ever compared side to side, but with a converter, I wouldn't be surprised if your boy lost some of the power rating of his 3ph motor, but we do what we got to do.

Aside from a very wide stepless rpm control, I think VFD's are thought to be more efficient than converters. VFD's can be used as a converter, but I think they are purpose built as a better option than the DC motor style of rpm speed control. Anyway, nothing but the best of luck with it, it's a mine field of projects out there.

edit to add, I suppose I'd have no idea how it would work out, just how I like it set up. Standard or workable motor mounts aren't a half bad thing to keep in mind because the time when a motor dies comes sooner or later.
« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:35pm by craigd »  
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boats
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #23 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:30pm
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Way I understand it, old style Rotary converters do reduce the motors power, right much too, they have been around for some time. Never installed one but have used machines with them.  The new VFD Electronic devices allow speed control and don't use up any of the motors power.  Cost about 300 bucks ?

My son knows all about them, I only know what's on the internet. Some good Utubes on how to hook one up though. I had some time on  a Tug Boat that ran on Diesel to generator then D/C Motor on the shaft, they are very efficient with near instant power when you want it.

Boats
  
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craigd
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #24 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:41pm
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[quote author=363B352027540 link=1503339919/23#23 date=1503426622]....Cost about 300 bucks ?..../quote]
This is only an example, nothing more. I have a KB electronics VFD on a 2hp motor. It's model KBAC-27, maybe about $350. It came to my mind because I'd guess it's about the right size for you Southbend 9. Other folks might have better ideas, but I think it's a nice pairing for that size motor and I think a nice controller. Bigger motor, bigger money.
  
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SBertram
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #25 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:59pm
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Very interesting discussion. I have never heard about the reduced power with a rotary converter, I have one and never seem to be lacking in that department. I run a big one though, 25 HP. Never had issues with the 10 HP I had in the past either.

You may look at some of the Taiwan made stuff. I have a Victor built in '82 and it is excellent all the way around. Great tolerances and 13-40 is all I need. I like the larger spindle as I now usually chamber through the head stock. I bought this one as part of a larger package of machinery and sold off what I did not want. Ended up with the lathe, horizontal band saw, gauge pins, tons of other measuring equipment, rolling tool box etc pretty much for free by the time I sold off the excess.
               Steve
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #26 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:44pm
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There's a few retired electricians on here if I recall and they'll chime in here in a few... I'm just a son of one... a rotary phase converter, provided it's set up correct won't cause a drop in power (noticeably) in the motor that is piggy backed off of it, where you lose power is if you are trying to run your three phase motor using a static phase converter- this has a capacitor bank that gives the motor a boost to get it moving, the third leg drops out and it operates on two of the three phases.  In a sense the motor is running at 2/3 power - there can be a little more heat and a little more amp draw - they tell me these go hand in hand...
The VFD uses a different approach, something about a saw-tooth sine wave... this goes back to the swiss watch theory I mentioned in an earlier post... Smiley
I run several VFD's on my equipment, I have three phase but it gives me a variable speed option in places it's needed. They save me time and time's money.
I've had a few employees that I helped set up a shop in their home for their hobbies and to do contract work for me, one happens to be a licensed electrician, he's taken this VFD usage to a whole new level so don't hesitate to check this out.
G
  

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craigd
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #27 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:13pm
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Thanks much guys about the phase converters. I'd bet my experiences have been with the static type, and definitely lower hp ratings.
  
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boats
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #28 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:18pm
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That rings a bell with me too Static reduces power rotary does not.

You could fill a pretty big book with what I don't know about electricity . One of the great things about ASSRA is the no BS knowledge freely shared.

Boats


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shovel80
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #29 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:27pm
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I believe it's the electronic...transistorized phase converters that lose some of the Horse Power..Not the rotarys. 
Terry
  

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