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Thinking about switching Lathes
Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:25pm
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Looking at trading out my lathe for another. Like to have some opinions from guys I trust, like on this forum.

I have an Atlas/Craftsman 12 inch. 1952 think it is.  When I bought it several advantages.  One owner since new then sent to a used machine shop I had bought from before and trusted Lots of tooling. No rust, no issues, and the Spindle and M/Tapers are the same as my Powermatic 90 wood lathe.  1 1/2 x 8 & # 2.

Switched the Lantern post for a Aloris Chinese Clone QC, picked up a milling attachment and Steady Rest off EBay.  Plenty of chucks etc. 

On the negative side the cross feed and tail stock need frequent adjustment, and the pot metal parts are not very study. Dials not easy to read. Most of the time I adjust by feel or with a dial indicator instead of the machines dials. Lot of aftermarket and original parts available.  Itís big enough and even a bit bigger than I need.  ĺ inch spindle hole is OK with me. Lot of people have them and plenty of support on line, some have been very valuable.  Don't realy need another but looking anyway. It was not expensive donít need to get a lot out of it which ought to make it a fairly fast sell.

Looking at South Bend 9 inch workshop lathes.  Several models, seems the Model A, power cross feed and QC gears is the one to have although I rarely use the power feed on my Atlas. Lot of South Bend support on line, good users group. Size suits my shop, space is at a premium.   One problem is hard to evaluate a lathe long distance, my Atlas spent several hours going over  in person it before committing, going home for my trailer then back to pick it up.   South Bends within a days drive I could look at several

What do you think about the South Bends and is there anything else in that class I ought to look at ? I think Hardinge made some small lathes in the same class as the South Bend 9 inch too.  Others ?

All advice apprecieated

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Mike_Hunter
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #1 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:47pm
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The Atlas/Craftsman lathes were really hobby grade lathes, as you've already identified the Zmac/pot metal parts really don't hold up.

Southbend lathes are decent...if not worn out. BUT..they seem to have quite a collector following, so be ready fro the "collector tax"

Sheldon lathes are excellent, and don't command a premium, as well as Logan lathe.

Some others to look at are Clausing and Rockwell

Oh and make sure you get one with precision tapered bearings in the headstock, there are a lot of older lathes out there with Babbit bearings. 
Hope that helps
« Last Edit: Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:00pm by Mike_Hunter »  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #2 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:38pm
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For what it is worth...

I am partial to South Bend.  For me a 10" would be ideal for two reasons.   The added weight makes for a smoother running machine and the belt drive is both quiet and works as a safety feature.  If I overload the cutter the belt slips and I avoid damaging gears and such.  10" is ideal but I picked up a 14 1/2" and really don't mind the extra size.   Get the Dials that are direct reading as they are larger and easier to work.  Enjoy!
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #3 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:41pm
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I think the best, small, low price lathe that you can get, is a 11" Logan.

They have a 1 3/8 spindle hole and can take barrel blanks to that diameter. it's also easy to get 5C collect closers for them. they have a 2 1/4 x 8 spindle nose, also very common. The spindle is suppoted by ball bearings.

I bought mind† used, in 1975 and used it in my business, until I retired. I still use it almost everyday and do 95% of my gun work on it.

The single thing that I didn't like, was the dial. I replaced that with a 3" diameter one.

The Clausing and Sheltons are good lathes but, their variable speed control can cause problems. tooling for the "L" tapers are costly and getting hard to find.

The price on Hardidge lathes, will keep you out of that market, as well as most anything that is classified as a "Tool Room Lathe".

I can't say anything about a Rockwell, I haven't ever found one in the machineshops that I've worked in.

I have worked on South Bends (13" & 16"). They had plain bearing in the ones I work with. I wouldn't recommend them, because of that.

Frank
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #4 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:41pm
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Good points all. Frank getting better bearings is one reason for moving on from the little Atlas, although they have never given any trouble.

My Band Saw, Crescent heavy 20, has Babbitt bearings that were replaced as part of a general overhaul 10 years ago. They run fine, band saws are not lathes though

May take me a while to find just right, picky about condition. 

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #5 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:50pm
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Just got a bunch of machine photos from my Son, Company he works for is buying a long closed ship yard, one that built ships I worked on years ago. Turn it into a ocean terminal.† †He can have anything he want's if he drives 1800 miles round trip with a big truck.

Machine shop is full of top notch very large machinery
They figure most is going to be sold for scrap price.  Smallest one he took pictures of is a Mazak M5 that looks hardly used.† They can probably sell that one as a lathe.

Shame we don't build ships anymore, all China or Korea. Lathes Mills grinders saws all cut up to sell to China, & come back on Walmart shelves as cheap toasters.

Boats

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #6 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:31pm
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Boats I have a 1985 Model DF12X37G Grizzly and it has done all I have asked of it and allot more. I bought it from the original owner and I do all of my barrel and mould making work with it. I have bored out several  basebands for myself and others and I can hold them to half a thousandths. About the only thing I don't care about is the off one switch is not per-say on the apron. But I use the lever to change the belts / speeds as a clutch or to stop the spindle of which I have gotten use to. I do most of my barrel work through the headstock so I would look for a large spindle hole. I myself would also look for one that has a milling attachment. Not having a Mill I use mine allot from cutting extractor slots and extractors to D&Ting for scope blocks and cutting bullet moulds as well as making the blanks and it has served me very well. It in know replaces a mill but it can do real accurate and limited use as mentioned. If I were to get another one I would probably get one of their Gunsmithing Lathes having read several reviews and the one, one up from the bottom one cannot beat all of the extra features for the price and the parts availabilty for a home shop lathe. Most SB's need some work if you can find a nice one and the ways are usualy worn out at the chuck amoung other things but a Heavy 10 can be quite nice if rebuilt or as new but I would much rather have a nice used Clausing tool room lathe if money were not an issue and it came with all of the accessories. The one I have now only cost me $940.00 delivered and setup with all the whistles and bells and only minus the taper attachment and collet closer and in real good shape and in all honesty I don't really need anything more for what I do even though I keep trying to talk myself into thinking otherwise.

JLouis
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #7 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:51pm
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A few years ago, I decided to replace a craftsman 12x36.† I did a lot of research and settled on three lathes that seemed to have all the features I wanted.† They were the Harrison M300, the Standard Modern 1334, and the Standard Modern 1340.† The features that drew me to these lathes were that they had short headstocks for barrel work, and they required little or no gear changes for threading most inch and metric threads.† I learned to hate changing gears on my Craftsman as it was didn't have the quick change gearbox.†

It took a couple of years to find a lathe that was priced right, was well equipped, and close enough to pick up.† It was an inch/metric SM 1334.† I like almost everything about the lathe except the range of metric threads isn't as broad as I would like.† However, it hasn't been a problem yet.

I hear nothing but good stuff about the American lathes you mentioned, but I just wanted to throw out a couple more options.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #8 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:54pm
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well.....
have a 13" clausing 5900 now and its my daily lathe, have had sheldon and logan. all good but man when you need a part (s) its pricy.
the clausing vari speed hydraulic control is a bugger to rebuild but love turning a knob for speed changes.  just pick out one that is the most complete, least abused and the least wear. may need a phase converter too. steady rest, collet closer, taper attachment, dog driver plate, follower rest, milling attachment?.....all nice to have. milling on a lathe works but is really a limited deal.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #9 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:08pm
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I have a haas TL 2 at the moment in my business but am about to sell the business as a going concern Cry. I like the haas for gun work but am not in a position to buy another haas when we move. The machine i am looking at buying instead is a microweily ty1640. It is made in taiwan and looks a pretty decent bit of kit. 1 meter between centres and a 50mm spindle. They come with dro and a quick change tool post. Smiley
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #10 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:20pm
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Bought a Causing 5900 13" brand new in 1970 with attachments, I used it for all my rifle barrel fitting and chambering work, used it every day without ever having any problems. If you can find one in excellent condition you can't go wrong. When I moved my shop I added a LaBlond tool room lathe, but I much preferred the variable speed control of the Clausing.
7~
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #11 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:47pm
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My first Lathe was/is a 9" South Bend Model A with Taper Atatchment. It has served me well, have had it since 1969 and it is a War time build. Having said that I have often wished for a 10" full size. 5C collets, large spindle hole. Stiffer under load.
Now have the 10" but have not made any effort to sell or get rid of the 9". I am more comfortable with the 9" for small pins
and Threading efforts. Tapers are a piece of cake. I also came into a 13" I would sell it as I have not actually used it once seriously. Came with large Aloris Post and holders. The best thing about it would be Knurling, Rugged, stiff not affected by Knurling loads. So there you are, still believe the 10" is the way to go. HTH Regards, FITZ-G. Smiley
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #12 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:55pm
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Way it will probably go is buy the one that's in the best condition with the most tooling that's near enough to go have a look before commiting.

Good information like this gives me a working list to refer too

Again thanks to all

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #13 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:47pm
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The Sheldon lathes are a cut above both South Bend and Logan. I have a 13" with 36" between centers. It has a threaded spindle and step pulley drive. It is equipped with a three phase motor, and I have fitted it with a variable frequency drive for speed changes on the fly.

Not knowing just what the OP expects to do with his lathe makes it difficult to advise on a replacement, but I would not recommend going with a smaller machine. The 9" South Bend is a minor improvement over an Atlas/Craftsman, but one gives up quite a bit of capacity by downsizing.
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #14 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:51pm
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I have a South Bend 9" A model with the 4 1/2 ft bed with the full set of metric gears and a milling attachment. I also have an 11" Logan with a long bed. The South Bend is my go to lathe for most small jobs because it is so convenient and easy to use. I also have a milling machine but my milling attachment gets used occasionally.

I use the Logan for chambering and crowning barrels because of the large spindle hole. I hate threading on the Logan compared to the SB. I turn tapers on barrels with the SB between centers with the tailstock offset. Sometimes it's time consuming with the limited horsepower but it does a good job.

I was recently offered a South Bend heavy 10 that is probably one of the best condition SB 10's in the country but I turned it down, not because I didn't want it. It's just that at my age I did not want to be moving machinery in and out of my basement. What I've got does what I need to do and I don't need to make any changes.

9" SB'S are nice if in good condition but are limited in power. The SB 10K is a modern version of the old 9" lathe and would be a good choice also but they have the small spindle hole. A heavy 10 would be a much better choice for gun work but finding a good one is not easy. Many are heavily used and worn. A new Grizzly gunsmith lathe would be a good choice if you can't find a good used lathe.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #15 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 10:52pm
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I like my 11" Logan...but, it is only 24" between centers.
If I did it again, I'd go at least 36" Between Centers!

Terry Smiley
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #16 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:44pm
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nothing wrong with South Bend's plain bearings there just not a High speed lathe and the bearings must be adjusted right .
In a south Bend I would look for a heavy 10  or a 13" maybe a 14 1/2.
In a sheldon a 12" or 13" or the top of the line 13"R series but there are rare. I have a 15" R series I have had it a few years it's still not up and running. It's  got 10 gears in the feed box that are dead it's such a nice lathe I think it had the gears in the feed box get crashed when it was near new .   and it was so well equipped and was so cheap I could not pass it up.
Logans I have had 3 12" lathes didn't like any of them none of them stuck around long one was a step pulley machine rare in this series 2 where  VS machine. but a lot of people that have them Love them I don't
had a few Clausing 5900 I like that they have a clutch for the spindle. I have a Clausing Colchester 13" X 40" 8000 series lathe it's been in the shop for 20 years + if I were looking for a lathe this is the one I would look for 1 1/2 spindle bore Inch metric threading clutched spindle gear head speeds to 2500 rpm 2000 lbs + down side any Parts cost both nuts and an arm. Ken
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #17 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:23am
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Boats,
I have some real strong opinions about machine tools, I make my living with them.  You never mentioned what your budget is or what your usage is, I'm guessing you spend quite a bit of time doing different projects and such? 
I started with some Asian brands when my business was part time, progressed to some European and lighter American made, eventually to Old Heavy American Iron.  This trait has carried over to my hobby machines as well.  I have a half dozen CNC's and about 25 manual machines.  I run mostly Monarch's, Cincinnati, American, Bridgeport and Giddings & Lewis now.
The last lathe you'd ever have to buy for gun work would be a Monarch 10EE - 12x22.  People say they are too difficult for the hobbyist to set up but if you have 220v single phase, know a little about electricity, (or someone) a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) makes these a real sweetheart.  Bear in mind, they are an unbelievable piece of American craftsmanship and for as small as they are, weigh as much as your car...  Once you run one, everything else comes in second place.  Just my 2 cents.
Greg
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #18 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 10:25am
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Agree with GT. After using several lathes, came to the conclusion that bigger is better.
Small parts are no problem on a larger lathe. Larger parts, like actions, are easier.
Use a Clausing 1500 (14 X 48"). Had to replace the seals in the variable speed pistons, otherwise no problems.
Headstock is too long for most barrels but the lathe large enough to turn a cat-head, which solves the problem.
Believe a collet attachment (5C or similar) is a requirement for any lathe.
Chuck
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #19 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:42am
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Good idea for me to set my constraints, keep from running down false paths. Thinking as I type here.

Basement shop is 24 L 28 W in two bays 24 x 12.  One bay is served by a ground level door I can roll my 4x8 1000  lb. capacity utility trailer in & that's how I will pick  one up. Lathe has to go there in the spot my Atlas occupies now, easy to get one in and unloaded either top lift from the floor joist above or with a neighbors Bobcat, fork lift blades fitted.

Atlas on its stand takes about 4x3 Ď with foot or so open space tailstock side. 3 feet open head stock side. So 1000 lbs. max little bigger than 4 x 3 footprint.  220 Single Phase. All my machinery is big & old American. Imports are great and good value. I donít have any.

However I am thinking little smaller or the same size & more precise. I donít plan to do any Barrel work.  Not objecting to large bore though, who knows I may want to learn to fit barrels one day. 

I do a lot of cartridge case work and repair all my machinery recently overhauled a Ponsness Warren Shot shell loader making a few of the parts. Use the Atlas to make metal parts needed for Wood Lathe projects too. From Canes and Walking sticks to Fishing rods to very large Lamp Post.  My wood lathe is a real big Powermatic.  Recently my son has been using the Atlas for pen work. Not kits, he turns Fountain Pens from Scratch. Ink leak proof, out of Ebonite. Threads the parts with taps and dies lathe mounted, In theory you could internal thread a pen body on the lathe but most pen makers use taps and dies.


Real constraint is looking before I buy. EBay has a viery nice looking Rockwell 10 inch model 25-700 with some tooling for 2500 dollars. Listed by the owner not a junk dealer and within my Budget. Itís in Fort Worth Texas Thousand miles from me.  Drive there find out itís not as good as the photos would be a problem.  So 1 days  drive from SE Virginia is about my limit, unless I can find somebody near to check one out for me.   Then 2 days drive would be OK. I want top condition no project lathes reason for looking carefully.

There are a lot of lathes for sale, not so many that suit my needs

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #20 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:35pm
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You mentioned 220 single phase as one of the considerations. It was mentioned earlier, but you may not have to rule out a lathe with a 3ph motor. Variable frequency Drives run 3ph motors off of single phase lines. I've purposely bought three phase motors for a couple of tools because of vfd speed control and good torque at low rpm's. Sometimes, a machine can be set up for the top speed that you want when the vfd is set a 100%, then use the vfd to change speeds.

I've noticed good machinery can sit collecting dust  because no one wants to mess with 3ph. If you do go the vfd route, consider a nema 4 housing, it keeps the grit out of nooks and crannies. Only a thought, sorry if you were already aware of it.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #21 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:59pm
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Craig that's true and my Son just set up 3 phase with a converter in his home shop. He was reluctant to go that route because of the cost but found a nice drill press that was priced to leave room for the converter.

Good thought I had not considered.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #22 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:18pm
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Just in case. A VFD and a 1ph to 3ph converter are not the same thing. I can't say I've ever compared side to side, but with a converter, I wouldn't be surprised if your boy lost some of the power rating of his 3ph motor, but we do what we got to do.

Aside from a very wide stepless rpm control, I think VFD's are thought to be more efficient than converters. VFD's can be used as a converter, but I think they are purpose built as a better option than the DC motor style of rpm speed control. Anyway, nothing but the best of luck with it, it's a mine field of projects out there.

edit to add, I suppose I'd have no idea how it would work out, just how I like it set up. Standard or workable motor mounts aren't a half bad thing to keep in mind because the time when a motor dies comes sooner or later.
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #23 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:30pm
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Way I understand it, old style Rotary converters do reduce the motors power, right much too, they have been around for some time. Never installed one but have used machines with them.  The new VFD Electronic devices allow speed control and don't use up any of the motors power.  Cost about 300 bucks ?

My son knows all about them, I only know what's on the internet. Some good Utubes on how to hook one up though. I had some time on  a Tug Boat that ran on Diesel to generator then D/C Motor on the shaft, they are very efficient with near instant power when you want it.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #24 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:41pm
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[quote author=363B352027540 link=1503339919/23#23 date=1503426622]....Cost about 300 bucks ?..../quote]
This is only an example, nothing more. I have a KB electronics VFD on a 2hp motor. It's model KBAC-27, maybe about $350. It came to my mind because I'd guess it's about the right size for you Southbend 9. Other folks might have better ideas, but I think it's a nice pairing for that size motor and I think a nice controller. Bigger motor, bigger money.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #25 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:59pm
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Very interesting discussion. I have never heard about the reduced power with a rotary converter, I have one and never seem to be lacking in that department. I run a big one though, 25 HP. Never had issues with the 10 HP I had in the past either.

You may look at some of the Taiwan made stuff. I have a Victor built in '82 and it is excellent all the way around. Great tolerances and 13-40 is all I need. I like the larger spindle as I now usually chamber through the head stock. I bought this one as part of a larger package of machinery and sold off what I did not want. Ended up with the lathe, horizontal band saw, gauge pins, tons of other measuring equipment, rolling tool box etc pretty much for free by the time I sold off the excess.
               Steve
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #26 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:44pm
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There's a few retired electricians on here if I recall and they'll chime in here in a few... I'm just a son of one... a rotary phase converter, provided it's set up correct won't cause a drop in power (noticeably) in the motor that is piggy backed off of it, where you lose power is if you are trying to run your three phase motor using a static phase converter- this has a capacitor bank that gives the motor a boost to get it moving, the third leg drops out and it operates on two of the three phases.  In a sense the motor is running at 2/3 power - there can be a little more heat and a little more amp draw - they tell me these go hand in hand...
The VFD uses a different approach, something about a saw-tooth sine wave... this goes back to the swiss watch theory I mentioned in an earlier post... Smiley
I run several VFD's on my equipment, I have three phase but it gives me a variable speed option in places it's needed. They save me time and time's money.
I've had a few employees that I helped set up a shop in their home for their hobbies and to do contract work for me, one happens to be a licensed electrician, he's taken this VFD usage to a whole new level so don't hesitate to check this out.
G
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #27 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:13pm
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Thanks much guys about the phase converters. I'd bet my experiences have been with the static type, and definitely lower hp ratings.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #28 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:18pm
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That rings a bell with me too Static reduces power rotary does not.

You could fill a pretty big book with what I don't know about electricity . One of the great things about ASSRA is the no BS knowledge freely shared.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #29 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:27pm
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I believe it's the electronic...transistorized phase converters that lose some of the Horse Power..Not the rotarys. 
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #30 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 8:39pm
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Rotary converters are basically a motor with a generator hung on the end to generate 3 ph. power. The generator doesn't lose any power, but the motor takes power to turn, and then produce 3 ph. power. So it's not a 1-1 ratio, since it does use some power to run the rotary converter.
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #31 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 8:47am
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marlinguy wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 8:39pm:
Rotary converters are basically a motor with a generator hung on the end to generate 3 ph. power. The generator doesn't lose any power, but the motor takes power to turn, and then produce 3 ph. power. So it's not a 1-1 ratio, since it does use some power to run the rotary converter.


A Rotary Converter "IS" A Motor Ran AS a Generator...No generator is attached...I was refering to loss of HP at the Mill or Lathe in previous post..Of course it takes some
single phase power to run the three phase motor to generate three phase using a capacitor to make the power for the tool or tools...I use a rotary phase converter to power a three phase lathe and a three phase mill.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #32 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 9:34am
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Seems like most here don't like anything that is not made in the U.S.   While I do have a few machines that were made here I found that most are out of reach for me. I have three lathes, all imports. The one that gets used the most is a 14X40 Birmingham that I bought new about 10 years back. For a phase converter I took an old 3 phase motor and and used a small motor to get it started. I have a one way clutch on the starter motor so it does not spin with the converter.  No capacitors and I can run four machines, sometime three at a time. My two mills have auto stop when they get to the end of the cut. I have kicked the circuit braker more than a few times . While my phase converter may not be a true 3 phase power it will give me instant reverse. My two smaller lathes ( 12X36 and 12X37) just did not seem to cover all the barrel jobs.
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #33 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 11:01am
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I bought my first lathe ~ 10 years ago - bought brand new 220 single phase because that's what my shop had and I didn't want to be bothered with some kind of phase converter. Fast forward to today and I've just recently installed a three phase motor / VFD on a piece of equipment. Now that I've seen the advantages of the VFD first hand, I don't think I'd ever buy another 1 phase piece of equipment - and I'm looking for a 3 phase motor for my old 1 phase lathe. The speed control is great - slow the motor down to ~ 180 RPM or go way over speed (1740 motor up to 3480 or even more if its balanced well enough) just by turning a dial. Wish I had that on my mill. Undecided
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #34 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:03pm
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I too am a fan of the new vfd 3 phase/2 phase speed controllers.  One caution is they are very electronically noisy and drove my Shooting Star dros crazy. 

John in Wyoming
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #35 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 6:55pm
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Bought one this afternoon. Advice you guys gave helped me narrow it down.  Found this Logan 1955 H on Craig's List 25 miles from home . Fellow buys and overhauls as a hobby.

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It's in nice shape. Comes with a 3 jaw and 4 Jaw.  Now to get it home and in the shop. Appreciate all the comments. Frank who has a Logan 11 inch was kind enough to give me tips on the phone before looking at it.

Boats
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #36 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 7:06pm
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Congratulations Boat it looks like it will serve your own personal needs very well as does mine do for me and all that really counts.

Very nice looking Lathe!
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #37 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 7:48pm
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Nice clean little machine, congrats.  If you're like the rest of us, you won't be worth a darn for anything else for a while Wink all you'll want to do is drive your new lathe...
G
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #38 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 8:18pm
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Boats, if you decide to go to the Electronic 3 Phase system. You need to match the unit to your Horsepower rating of the Motor. If you buy a Static Phase converter and you get one of higher Horse Power Rating it will NOT make 3 Phase power and will pass 220V Single Phase thru to your Machine. It will run but will eventually "Cook" your Motor. Ask me how I know. But with a Rotary system you can get a unit that produces more 3 Phase power than you need. This will give you the option of
adding more 3 Phase equipment if you choose in the future. The Static Phase system cheats you of power makes you about 80% of your Motors potential. I have both a Rotary and one Bridgeport on the Static system. Mostly because I do not like the noise of the Rotary system. But I have everything else on the Rotary and I can load up to 13 Horse Power accumitavely at the same time if I choose. Hope this helps. Regards, FITZ-G Smiley
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #39 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 8:35pm
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Fitz it has a 115 V.† Motor. Will see how that goes.

Now to move my Atlas out and get the Logan home.† Thinking take the adjustable feet off , bolt it to two furniture dollys from Northern Tool. Strip all I can off then hire a roll back wrecker for the 25 mile drive.† Will try that with my Utility Trailer and the Atlas first (sons shop) it's lighter by half. Works ok then rig the Logan same way.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #40 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 8:37pm
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It looks like you did OK. That Logan will make about anything you want to make and it's big enough to put a barrel thru the spindle. If you should ever want to do barrel work you'll want to replace that tension nut on the outboard end of the spindle with a longer one with 4 set screws in it to center barrels on the outboard end. I can furnish a photo of mine if you would like.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #41 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 8:48pm
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Deadeye have a home made spider for the outboard end of my Atlas very useful. Like to see that photo.† One on my Atlas have to run with the door open be good to be able to leave one on.

Here is my trailer. It handles 1000 lbs low fine not so sure about the Logan set up. Could be tippy. Have carried a 400 lb drill press for my sons shop, lowered the head all the way down first.  Bags of mulch to keep it from bouncing empty


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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #42 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 9:33pm
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I think you posted a picture like one of my first, you're lucky that drill press and trailer can defy gravity it could have been a heck of wreck...  Grin
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #43 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 9:53pm
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It was† a solid ride with the head down all the way. Always cautious about stability though. Seen a number of ship incidents due weight too high. Couple significant. Most because of cargo shifting.†What you don't see in the drill press photo is cross sleepers with the presses bed bolted in addition to 4 way lashing high. . No way for the load to shift. 

That's my lathe concern though higher CG. And load weight very close to trailer capacity.  May be better to hire a roll back. Nice and wide 800 lbs nothing to them.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #44 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 11:18pm
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Sounds like the load is 80% of trailer capacity?  You still have a safety margin, 25 miles? take it slow shouldn't be an issue.  First recommendation I have for you though is to get rid of the rope, purchase a package of 1" wide nylon ratchet straps, use cushions under the straps under any sharp corners, (ie. old leather gloves work well here).  I'm probably not telling you anything new here.
Just don't hurry and check and double check, go slow and be one of the guys in a little brown derby (that's what my wife says causes traffic jams) and drive like you have precious cargo - which you do.
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #45 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 11:37pm
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Congrats Boats, nice lathe. Since you bought it from someone that works with this kind of machinery regularly, maybe ask him how he moves it or who he uses. He probably has all the gear to move it, and might know the lift points better than the wrecker driver.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #46 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 11:52pm
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Nice looking tool Boats! Mine is very Similar...it's a 1920 H...H for Hardened bed I was told by logan.
And your paint is much nicer than mine...
If you can come up with a collet closer in addition to the 3 and 4 jaw chucks you'll Love it!
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #47 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 8:57am
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Here are pictures of the outboard cathead I made for mine. When I bought my lathe it had sat for years and the spindle bearings were dry and noisy. I had to replace the bearings so I had the spindle out of the lathe. It was an easy job to make a new preload nut at that time. I use 3/8-24 set screws with brass tips to adjust center. I have short screws for large diameter barrels and long screws for small diameter barrels. I placed the screw holes in line with the jaws on the 4 jaw chuck. I had to bore the hole in the cover elongated to be able to open it over the extension.

I still have the original nut. If you would like to borrow it to help you make an extended one I would send it to you.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #48 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 8:59am
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Here's another picture with the cover closed.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #49 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 9:33am
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That's perfect Deadeye. Design is like the one on my Atlas just a better fit. Like you I replaced the  Hex head screws with Allen head set screws that run down to flush, Have two sets can go to longer ones when running small dia stock. Made a lot of cleaning rods on the Atlas.  Steel and Delrin both.

Be a little while before I am ready to make one up, will take you up on the offer when I do. We don't live all that far apart considering I shoot up in the Valley fairly often.  Shotguns 8/6 at Shenendale Club next.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #50 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:49am
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!st post but I have the same Logan & agree 100%. I also have a mint Pacemaker with taper & Buck adjust true I rarely use &
will probably sell but it's one of the finest made IMHO.

frnkeore wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:41pm:
I think the best, small, low price lathe that you can get, is a 11" Logan.

They have a 1 3/8 spindle hole and can take barrel blanks to that diameter. it's also easy to get 5C collect closers for them. they have a 2 1/4 x 8 spindle nose, also very common. The spindle is suppoted by ball bearings.

I bought mind† used, in 1975 and used it in my business, until I retired. I still use it almost everyday and do 95% of my gun work on it.

The single thing that I didn't like, was the dial. I replaced that with a 3" diameter one.

The Clausing and Sheltons are good lathes but, their variable speed control can cause problems. tooling for the "L" tapers are costly and getting hard to find.

The price on Hardidge lathes, will keep you out of that market, as well as most anything that is classified as a "Tool Room Lathe".

I can't say anything about a Rockwell, I haven't ever found one in the machineshops that I've worked in.

I have worked on South Bends (13" & 16"). They had plain bearing in the ones I work with. I wouldn't recommend them, because of that.

Frank

  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #51 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 1:51am
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I'm a little surprised non of you guys mentioned a LeBlond lathe.† I have a 15x54 LaBlond I acquired some time ago and plan to fully restore it to close to new as possible.† It's a model 15C5 (5 HP) and came with a brand new rotory phase converter system (7.5 HP motor & separate control box).† The guy I bought it from got it from Tracor Aerospace in Austin where it was shipped from the factory on 3/10/1969.† He had it stored in his garage, bought the phase converter but never used the lathe and never installed the phase converter.† It reportedly was used to machine aluminum parts for aircraft.† It came with a bunch of stuff including: 2 Aloris tool posts & 4 Aloris holders, 3-jaw 8" Buck chuck, 4-jaw 10" Cushman chuck, taper attachment, Hardinge Sjogen speed collet chuck for 5c collets, drawtube type lever action collet closer for 5C collets & various tools.† Everything for $900.

I need to clean it up and repaint it.† The wife says I can't keep it in the garage so plan to build a workshop for it & other equipment.

Once I get the lathe up & running, next on the list is a good mill.† Until then I have a Palmgen 400 lathe milling attachment.

Wayne
  

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #52 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:35am
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Mac the probably skipped LeBlonds because I was looking for small.  You are going to add a building for it, the Logan has to fit my shop !!

Talk about big my Cousin owns a machine shop, does a lot of work for small ship yards. He bought a 36 foot lathe out of the Navy Yard surplus. Has a seat on the saddle so the operator can ride.   Had to put in a metal building to house it.  Propeller shaft work keeps it busy.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #53 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 10:28am
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texasmac wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 1:51am:
I'm a little surprised non of you guys mentioned a LeBlond lathe.† I have a 15x54 LaBlond I acquired some time ago and plan to fully restore it to close to new as possible.† It's a model 15C5 (5 HP) and came with a brand new rotory phase converter system (7.5 HP motor & separate control box).† The guy I bought it from got it from Tracor Aerospace in Austin where it was shipped from the factory on 3/10/1969.† He had it stored in his garage, bought the phase converter but never used the lathe and never installed the phase converter.† It reportedly was used to machine aluminum parts for aircraft.† It came with a bunch of stuff including: 2 Aloris tool posts & 4 Aloris holders, 3-jaw 8" Buck chuck, 4-jaw 10" Cushman chuck, taper attachment, Hardinge Sjogen speed collet chuck for 5c collets, drawtube type lever action collet closer for 5C collets & various tools.† Everything for $900.

I need to clean it up and repaint it.† The wife says I can't keep it in the garage so plan to build a workshop for it & other equipment.

Once I get the lathe up & running, next on the list is a good mill.† Until then I have a Palmgen 400 lathe milling attachment.

Wayne


Sounds like a heck of a good deal you got! That's a big boy lathe though!

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #54 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 11:50am
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boats wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:35am:
Mac the probably skipped LeBlonds because I was looking for small.† You are going to add a building for it, the Logan has to fit my shop !!
Boats


shovel80 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 10:28am:
Sounds like a heck of a good deal you got! That's a big boy lathe though!
Terry Wink


I've used several South Bend's while taking NRA gunsmithing classes &, as I remember, they're not a lot bigger.† My LeBlond footprint is 8' 2" x 24".† I had planned to keep it in our 2-car garage but that got nixed.† BTW, LeBlond also made smaller lathes & of course some huge ones.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #55 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 12:27pm
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Bigger is almost always better if you have the space. The heavier the machine the less torque and vibration.
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #56 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 12:37pm
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"Bigger is almost always better if you have the space. The heavier the machine the less torque and vibration. "

Not always. Larger lathes are great for drive shafts, etc. However, larger throw
lathes run out of rpm rather soon. This is especially true if one is using carbide
inserts that really like to  work in a given sfm range.

Other than that stiffness and lack of chatter is really nice.
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #57 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 2:12pm
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Larger lathes are almost always easier to use, just because of the extra size and mass. handles and dials are much nicer and more usefull.

But, they are more expensive, harder to move and most have head stocks that are to long for barrel work, w/o using a steady rest on the bed. I only do barrel work (other than polishing) in the lathe spindle, indicated at both ends of the headstock.

A good 17" lathe will cost $3000 - 4000. Good 14 - 15" lathes $2000 - 3000. You can go a lot higher than that, depending on the make, condition and tooling.

Most people starting out, doing their own barrel work, don't want to invest that much. The 11" Logans will do any gunsmithing work for $600 - 1000, bought on Craigs list or even dealers. The ability to use 5C collets, gives them a big advantage over many small lathes.

I bought mine used, in 1976 and it continues to do it's job, 41 years later. Mine also has a bed turret, that also helps it's usefulness. You can add all kinds of things to them.

There are better (usually much more expensive) lathes in the 14" range and under but, none cheaper and more reliable.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #58 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 8:31am
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Logan's home and in my shop.† Jacked it up put heavy casters under each end and rolled it up ramps onto my 1000 lb capacity Utility Trailer.† Not that hard to do, just can't afford mistakes with that kind of load. Want to see  how to roll big stuff look at my post , off topic chatter


Fellow that restored it never used it, and never set up the drive belts properly. Lot of under the cabinet work adjusting, think I have it about right now.† Only mechanical issue I can find, clutch is not working, Half nut engages fine, this lathe has a clutch to engage the feed independent of the half nut, and slips should the carriage hit something.† Logan manual came with it has exploded drawings of the saddle and clutch. On line couple of good Utube videos on how to set up and adjust the clutch.† Tackle that this weekend.

It's a whole lot more lathe than my 12 inch Atlas, which is on my trailer now going to my son's shop tomorrow.

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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #59 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:05pm
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One Lathe that I got and has proved to be a good investment is a older Wood Lathe.  Put a small 3 Jaw Chuck on it and now I can sand and polish parts without worrying about grit getting on my good lathe.  Handy for polishing barrels also!
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #60 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:01am
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Boats, that is a very good little lathe.
Lee
  
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Re: Thinking about switching Lathes
Reply #61 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 9:37pm
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NR

I have a wood lathe thatís about twice the Loganís size. My Granddaughter turning on it. Powermatic 90 

Like that big iron

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