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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Best twist for a Lyman 410663? (Read 1335 times)
alex henry two
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #15 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 6:08pm
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Martini79, I shoot 1in18 40cal based on .348winchester case about 70g of 3f out to 900yds so far bullet length 1.180''grease groove. Vic.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #16 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 8:53pm
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With the Lyman 410663 at 1,250 fps the gyroscopic stability factor for the twists you mentioned are:

13:1 twist Sg=3.22
15:1 twist Sg=2.42
16:1 twist Sg=2.13
17:1 twist Sg=1.88
18:1 twist Sg=1.68

For that bullet I would select the 16:1 twist which has a bit of overspin which will help it shoot better at longer distances.

I have a .40-65 Shiloh Sharps 1884 with a 16:1 twist barrel and I shoot very tight groups out to 800 meters with a 410 grain Money bullet:

Caliber      0.408      Inches            
Bullet Weight      410      Grains            
Bullet Length      1.44      Inches            
Barrel Twist      16      Inches/turn            
muzzle velocity      1250      fps            
Temperature      50      degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)            
Pressure      29.92      inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)            
                       
Sg =      1.86            

I have a .40-60 Maynard CPA Stevens 44 1/2 with a 16:1 twist barrel and I shoot better groups out to 800 meters with a 410 grain Creedmore Paul Jones bullet:

Caliber      0.408      Inches
Bullet Weight      410      Grains
Bullet Length      1.375      Inches
Barrel Twist      16      Inches/turn
muzzle velocity      1250      fps
Temperature      50      degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure      29.92      inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)
           
Sg =      2.12      

The Lyman 410663 would not shoot groups as tight as the Paul Jones Creedmore bullet or the Boomer Money bullet in either of my rifles.
« Last Edit: Aug 27th, 2017 at 9:36pm by Schuetzendave »  
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beltfed
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #17 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 9:59pm
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Martini79,
It will be interesting to learn of what twist you ended up with
AND, please report back to us your accuracy results with the 410663 ---and other bullets you may try. I do agree with Schuetzendave:  A tapered or two diameter bullet, from a quality mold cut by a custom moldmaker such as mentioned
and such as my PiCS show, will be worthwhile. The taper or two diameter designs will enable you to seat the bullets out and get in MORE POWDER/Higher Velocity. But it must be cut to an appropriate length for your twist for best accuracy. Such as 1.325" for a 16 twist.
beltfed/arnie
  
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martini79
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #18 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 7:39pm
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Again, thanks for the replies.

Let me ask another question all barrels except the 1:13 twist need to be imported to Australia. Will using a 1:13 twist be detrimental to accuracy in the 200-500 yards range if using 410663 or similar?
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #19 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 10:48pm
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A 13:1 twist will be grossly overspinning the bullet to the extent it will affect accuracy. Normally you select a twist so the weight and length of your bullet will provide a Sg between 1.4 and 2.0.

Less than 1.4 it does not spin the bullet enough and anything over 2.0 you are overspinning the bullet.
Long range shooters may overspin a bullet to about 2.4 but the 13 twist will give you a Sg of 3.22 which is way too much of  a spin.
  
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martini79
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #20 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 11:01pm
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That is what I suspected, but I wanted to check, just because it would be the easiest, cheapest and quickest barrel to get.

In order to get anything else I will need to import. The advise from experience here seems to be a 1:15 or 1:16 twist, I am tempted to go for a 1:17, due to the fact that I can not see me using the rifle past 500 yards. I really want to get the most out of it at 200-300 yards!

Is an SG of 1.7 a good stability factor for 200 yards?
  
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texasmac
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #21 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 11:15pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 8:53pm:
The Lyman 410663 would not shoot groups as tight as the Paul Jones Creedmore bullet or the Boomer Money bullet in either of my rifles.


I've had similar experiences with the Lyman Snover 410663 in a 16-twist, .409 groove dia. Browning BPCR.  After extensive testing it will not shoot as well as a Paul Jones Creedmoor, BACO 409400M4 or 410401M3 Money bullets.  But I was using a blow tube and don't believe it holds sufficient lube for the typical dry & hot summer condition found in central Texas.  So it may work better when wiping between shots.

Wayne
« Last Edit: Aug 28th, 2017 at 11:21pm by texasmac »  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #22 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:52am
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An Sg of 1.7 will work great out to at least 500 Meters.

Long distance shooters try to overspin their bullets to compendate for drag over long distances (1,000 yards) and look for a Sg just over 2.0.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #23 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:07am
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beltfed wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 9:59pm:
Martini79,
It will be interesting to learn of what twist you ended up with
AND, please report back to us your accuracy results with the 410663 ---and other bullets you may try. I do agree with Schuetzendave:  A tapered or two diameter bullet, from a quality mold cut by a custom moldmaker such as mentioned
and such as my PiCS show, will be worthwhile. The taper or two diameter designs will enable you to seat the bullets out and get in MORE POWDER/Higher Velocity. But it must be cut to an appropriate length for your twist for best accuracy. Such as 1.325" for a 16 twist.
beltfed/arnie


I think that past 200 yards that is the ticket.  The Buffalo Arms money bullets that I'm using for midrange + silhouette have three bore diameter driving bands and are 1.4" long.  They also have mini-grooves for reduced drag.  The BC is about 0.475 which is better than the .45 cal Creedmoor designs, and it's no problem to push them past 1300 fps to minimize vertical dispersion at distance.

I have a faster twist .40-65 coming very soon from Shiloh and will try the 420gr version of this bullet.  A well known fellow I shoot with sometimes uses this combo and it's worked quite well for him.

Chris.
  

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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #24 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:59am
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I have used the 410-663 very successfully in a 20 twist.  Also works well in a 40-70 BN with 20 or slower twist. Not a super long bullet.


             Joe.
  
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martini79
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #25 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 4:57pm
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Thanks Joe what range were you shooting to?
  
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westerner
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #26 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 6:30pm
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200 to 385 meters. Turkey distance, whatever that is.  BP fixed only. Good old bullet.


             Joe.
  
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martini79
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #27 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 6:47pm
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Theoretically unstable till a 1:18 twist! But it worked fine out to 400 odd yards. What did you use for rams?
  
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westerner
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #28 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 9:04pm
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For rams I used a Ron Long 400 gr tapered spitzer. 55 gr Swiss 1 1/2. Have shot it to 600 with the RL spitzer but was not competitive. Just plain ran out of gas at that distance.


          Joe.
  
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Re: Best twist for a Lyman 410663?
Reply #29 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 5:32pm
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Guess I should have read scientific ballistics books and stuff more. After the xray glasses caper, didn't believe everything I read.  Hoping someday they figure out how to make those glasses work.


           Joe.
  
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