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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE (Read 2413 times)
WALNUT HILL
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WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Aug 30th, 2017 at 6:59pm
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My first schuetzen. I just won at auction yesterday. The ad listed it as Manufactured in 1919. Zischang† buttstock.† 22 LR Barrel Length: 30" Serial Number: 119732

I would like to know everything about it ? Who made it? Any and all info comments welcome and thanks from a newb

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oneatatime
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #1 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:17pm
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All I know is that it is one beautiful rifle!
  
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WALNUT HILL
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #2 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:36pm
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oneatatime wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:17pm:
All I know is that it is one beautiful rifle!


And that's exactly all I know too!!! Smiley

would love to know some more
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #3 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:46pm
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The stock and butt plate appear to be Laudensack, not Zischang.


Beautiful!


             Joe.
  
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WALNUT HILL
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #4 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:48pm
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westerner wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:46pm:
The stock and butt plate appear to be Laudensack, not Zischang.
Beautiful!
† †† †† †† † Joe.

Thanks I no the auction house just gives it a guess... I will research Laudensack

Is it a Low Wall Win 1855?
  
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westerner
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #5 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:52pm
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Low Wall 1885.  Search Winchester Laudensack "images"


        Joe.
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #6 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:25pm
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Beautiful Rifle!
  

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WALNUT HILL
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #7 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:38pm
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shovel80 wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:25pm:
Beautiful Rifle!

Thanks Shovel80 Do you know anything about it??

I'm gonna guess you ride a shovelhead?!
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #8 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:53pm
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My goodness congratulations on owning such a beautiful rifle! Please get out to a match and shoot it  Smiley
Scott
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #9 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:15pm
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Well, I guess I'll just go along with the gang and congratulate you on a great start with this beauty. Go shoot 'er off a little and let us see what she'll do.
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #10 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:33pm
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thanks to all... its a beauty for sure

how do I find out who made it??
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #11 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 10:37pm
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great gun Bill!
You outbid me on that one, but I got a couple of others at that auction.

Aaron
« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2017 at 12:25am by Rebel »  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #12 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 12:08am
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Looking at the pics, it is marked EL Longo on the barrel.
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #13 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 12:27am
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Gorgeous Low Wall schuetzen!
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #14 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 2:18am
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I think an engraved Schuetzen Low Wall would have been pre-WW1.  According to the gurus, the Winchester records do not record anything with a SN > 110,000.  Campbell's Vol. 1 has a list that would date the rifle at late 1913 or some time in 1914.  My understanding is that the market for such rifles died with the US preparation for WW1, about 1915-1916.

It should be a coil spring action.  Is it?

Using Ancestry.com, I tried a search for E.L. Longo with birth dates of 1860 and 1870.  I did not get a clear hit, but there are hundreds of people in the US with the surname Longo.  There are also a couple of pre-WW2 wildcat cartridges attributed to a guy named Longo.  One was a blown-out Krag case with a sharp shoulder, reported in a Winchester 54.

Is that Winchester factory engraving?
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #15 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:21am
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I don't think the work is original Winchester and probably recently done but very nice.
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #16 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:12pm
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I bought a couple of 1885's, conceivably from the same collection.
Mine are not original, but of similar quality and style I think.
The spacing of the holes around the Longo name could be from a base for modern scope, mine all came as such. Can't wait to take that scope off.
Aaron
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #17 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:43pm
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Some of the rifles from this collection were from CPA they had Paul Shuttleworth  stamped on them . I contacted Gail and she said they were not in the CPA records on computer. It sure would be nice if we could find out where they all came from. Centurion Auction was the seller

  
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WALNUT HILL
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #18 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:46pm
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waterman wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 2:18am:
I think an engraved Schuetzen Low Wall would have been pre-WW1.† According to the gurus, the Winchester records do not record anything with a SN > 110,000.† Campbell's Vol. 1 has a list that would date the rifle at late 1913 or some time in 1914.† My understanding is that the market for such rifles died with the US preparation for WW1, about 1915-1916.

It should be a coil spring action.† Is it?

Using Ancestry.com, I tried a search for E.L. Longo with birth dates of 1860 and 1870.† I did not get a clear hit, but there are hundreds of people in the US with the surname Longo.† There are also a couple of pre-WW2 wildcat cartridges attributed to a guy named Longo.† One was a blown-out Krag case with a sharp shoulder, reported in a Winchester 54.

Is that Winchester factory engraving?


Unfortunately I cant answer any of these questions as I don't have the rifle yet can you look for  E. L. Longo in the 1900 to 1940 range? I don't know what that would tell
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #19 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 4:23pm
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You have a very pretty gun Bill.
I love it but I don't think too much is original.
Aaron
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #20 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 4:49pm
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WALNUT HILL wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:38pm:
I'm gonna guess you ride a shovelhead?!

He used to anyway ... as he had to SELL it to finance that beautiful rifle!
  

All of my single shots shoot one tiny ragged hole with cast bullets ... it's just the following shots that tend to open up my groups Wink ...
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #21 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:05pm
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You have a Really nice 1885 there , I also got a couple of. Singles probably at the same Auction,a Winchester 1885 in† 22 WCF and I replaced my Burnside that I sold to fund A "73" last Year .

† † Did one of you guys end up with the Providence Machine 45/70?
I was bidding with a I Pad and and had a problem bidding and was unable to Get my next bid in and watched it slip away .
† †† Nice Score s Guys !

Walnut hill , I had a Panhead Now a Blockhead .
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #22 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:36pm
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waterman wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 2:18am:
I think an engraved Schuetzen Low Wall would have been pre-WW1.† According to the gurus, the Winchester records do not record anything with a SN > 110,000.† Campbell's Vol. 1 has a list that would date the rifle at late 1913 or some time in 1914.† My understanding is that the market for such rifles died with the US preparation for WW1, about 1915-1916.


Is that Winchester factory engraving?


It is a nice looking Schuetzen style rifle, but not of Winchester origin.

Campbell was off the mark concerning his estimated dates of manufacture.  Per the original Winchester factory serialization records, serial number 115308 (the last one recorded) was manufactured on May 26th, 1914.  The year 1913 ended at serial number 114712.  Based on the average production rate in the years 1908 - 1913, the serial number (119732) on the subject rifle  was not manufactured any sooner than mid-year 1917.

As for the rifle, very little of it is factory original.  Specifically, Winchester had ceased color case finishing the receiver frames in August of 1901, offering only a blued frame.  The low-wall was only offered with a plain or a single-set trigger.  The butt plate is the Laudensack style, but Winchester blued them versus nickel plating.

Bert H.

  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #23 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:15am
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It is a beautiful rifle a little to nice. Iím thinking that the action dates from the 1919 date but the frame and maybe the block are the only thing original. This looks like a high-end project rifle that was done in the last 10 years or so. That is not meant to disparage this rifle in any way. It is gorgeous and little used. But Iíll be amazed if this left the factory in this configuration.

40 Rod
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #24 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:19am
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One other thing the only Longo that I can remember is the old Schuetzenmeister in Florida Larry Longo. Maybe some of the older Florida guys could help.

40 Rod
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #25 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:18am
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Considering Winchester serial numbered only the lower tang, any action that tang is fitted to becomes what the records show. There are thousands of Winchester rifles with tangs swapped form other rifles to make up fine deluxe versions. No telling what year an action is once a particular tang is installed on it.
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #26 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:43pm
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I tried E. L Longo with birth dates from 1900 to 1940.  No E.L., but several E. Longo matches from up & down the east coast.  Larry Longo was listed in a 2002 phone book for West Palm Beach.  Longo is a more common name than I imagined.

Does West Palm Beach attract single shot guys?  Farrow lived there for the last 20 years of his life.
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #27 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:38pm
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Can someone explain how the lever between the triggers works??

I'm a newb
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #28 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:51pm
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I think all there is between the double set triggers is the adjusting screw.
You can fire the rifle by just pulling the front trigger, or you can pull the rear trigger first which makes the front trigger much lighter, a "hair trigger".
The screw between the triggers adjust how light the front trigger is in set mode. Those set triggers add much to the value of the rifle in my opinion.
The set triggers add complexity and increase lock time somewhat.
I'm sure others will chime in on which is best.
Double set triggers (DST's) are rare, very rare on low walls and way cool.
You will enjoy the movie "Quigley Down Under".
Aaron
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #29 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:11pm
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There's a Longo cartridge discussed in De Haas's singleshot cartridge book.
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #30 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:32pm
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I believe that's Herbert R. Longo, a 25 Hornet type round envisioned as a centerfire 25 Stevens rimfire. could be wrong.
Aaron
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #31 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:13pm
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Rebel wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:32pm:
I believe that's Herbert R. Longo, a 25 Hornet type round envisioned as a centerfire 25 Stevens rimfire. could be wrong.
Aaron


Herbert Longo had a daughter Elaine Longo
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #32 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:18pm
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I think you'll find it's a newer barrel, sure looks it.
Aaron
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #33 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:18pm
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Rebel wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:51pm:
I think all there is between the double set triggers is the adjusting screw.
You can fire the rifle by just pulling the front trigger, or you can pull the rear trigger first which makes the front trigger much lighter, a "hair trigger".
The screw between the triggers adjust how light the front trigger is in set mode. Those set triggers add much to the value of the rifle in my opinion.
The set triggers add complexity and increase lock time somewhat.
I'm sure others will chime in on which is best.
Double set triggers (DST's) are rare, very rare on low walls and way cool.
You will enjoy the movie "Quigley Down Under".
Aaron


I don't see too many double set triggers that have that screw adjust

SO I am guessing this is a modern build rifle ?? Like CPA or  Wyoming Armory ??? If this is a modern build say last 20 years it must have cost a bundle to have something like this made to order??

Or was it made it the 1920's or thereabouts??

« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:25pm by WALNUT HILL »  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #34 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:36pm
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Well, you asked so I tried to explain.
I've never seen dst's without it, not just Winchesters.
My Ballards and Hepburns all have it too. So do Stevens.
Of course, I haven't seen it all.
You might buy a book or two with some pics, it will be very educational. Campbell wrote some good ones on the 1885.
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Or take a look at some pics on the internet.
In my opinion, your gun looks to new to have been done in the 20's
Aaron
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:50pm by Rebel »  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #35 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 4:02pm
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Rebel wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:36pm:
Well,
In my opinion, your gun looks to new to have been done in the 20's
Aaron


Thanks for all the help Aaron and Quigley's on the agenda for the evening!........

If I had to place a bet I would guess its no more than 10 years old .  So how do I go about finding out who made a modern beauty like this one?
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #36 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 4:03pm
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Shooting DST rifles without setting the rear trigger is not a good idea! It likely will eventually break the trigger mechanism.
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #37 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 4:48pm
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You'll find lots of opinions on this sight, I always trust Marlinguy (Vall).
Aaron
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #38 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 5:05pm
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I think 40_Rod had the best clue - an old Schuetzenmeister in Florida (was in West Palm Beach 2000-2002) seems like the kind of guy who would have had rifles like that and with the trail gone cold in 2002, may have shuffled off the mortal coil. Anyone check the West Palm obits?
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #39 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 5:17pm
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WALNUT HILL wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:13pm:
Rebel wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:32pm:
I believe that's Herbert R. Longo, a 25 Hornet type round envisioned as a centerfire 25 Stevens rimfire. could be wrong.
Aaron


Herbert Longo had a daughter Elaine Longo


Herbert Longo also developed a wildcat on the Krag cartridge.  Supposedly you could shoot factory Krag ammo in the appropriate rifle (Win 54 or High Wall) and is would blow out, moving the shoulder forward.

And could Elaine have had that beautiful rifle made?

I agree that Larry Longo is the most likely.
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #40 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 5:36pm
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Walnut Hill, why not call the auction and see if they will tell you anything?
Let me know if you do please.
Aaron
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #41 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:16pm
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Rebel wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 5:36pm:
Walnut Hill, why not call the auction and see if they will tell you anything?
Let me know if you do please.
Aaron


I will try and find out I'm waiting for the invoice......
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #42 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:29pm
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oneatatime wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 5:05pm:
I think 40_Rod had the best clue - an old Schuetzenmeister in Florida (was in West Palm Beach 2000-2002) seems like the kind of guy who would have had rifles like that and with the trail gone cold in 2002, may have shuffled off the mortal coil. Anyone check the West Palm obits?


The auction was out of Florida as well
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #43 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 10:06pm
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WALNUT HILL wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 4:02pm:
Rebel wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:36pm:
Well,
In my opinion, your gun looks to new to have been done in the 20's
Aaron


Thanks for all the help Aaron and Quigley's on the agenda for the evening!........

If I had to place a bet I would guess its no more than 10 years old .† So how do I go about finding out who made a modern beauty like this one?


I think the gun is likely much older, but the rework or restoration is recent. Big difference between when a gun was born, vs. when it might have been reworked.
But it's still a beauty!
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #44 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 10:56am
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WALNUT HILL wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:29pm:
oneatatime wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 5:05pm:
I think 40_Rod had the best clue - an old Schuetzenmeister in Florida (was in West Palm Beach 2000-2002) seems like the kind of guy who would have had rifles like that and with the trail gone cold in 2002, may have shuffled off the mortal coil. Anyone check the West Palm obits?


The auction was out of Florida as well


I asked the auction house

"All of those firearms were out of one estate here in Tallahassee."

but would not give a name






  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #45 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 11:34am
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WALNUT HILL wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 10:56am:
I asked the auction house

"All of those firearms were out of one estate here in Tallahassee."

but would not give a name


Not likely that anyone with a major collection wouldn't be known by other collectors & dealers in area.† (Although if restoration/rebuilding is only 10 yrs old, that doesn't sound like any "old time collector.")







  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #46 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 2:57pm
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Sounds like the auction house knows who's estate it belongs to, but for privacy reasons wont reveal it.
Many people don't want a restored gun, but many want their guns to look like new and don't think twice about it. I wouldn't think how old the collector is would make a difference in that thinking. Or that it would apply to every gun in their collection.
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #47 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 4:38pm
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 2:57pm:

Many people don't want a restored gun, but many want their guns to look like new and don't think twice about it. I wouldn't think how old the collector is would make a difference in that thinking.


If the supposition is that the gun was part of the collection of an "old time schuetzen shooter," then I think age would make a big difference, because I can't imagine any of them (septuagenarians at least if they aren't already in the bone yard) doing such a thing--restoring it to "new" cond.  These aren't the big-spenders who keep Doug Turnbull and his competitors in business.  (I'm glad, however, these types are around, just to keep the skills of top quality rust-bluing, case-coloring, etc., alive & well.)

  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #48 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 9:23pm
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Guess we'll just have to disagree Redsetter. I know a fair number of friends in their 60's and 70's who own nice old originals, and also restored nice guns. A number of those same guys are still actively building up project guns too, and enjoy that part of collecting old single shots.
And as hard as it might be to believe, there are a fair number of great restoration gunsmiths today doing work as good or better than Turnbull, and at much more reasonable prices too! Sounds like you need to expand your imagination!
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #49 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 10:59pm
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 9:23pm:
  And as hard as it might be to believe, there are a fair number of great restoration gunsmiths today doing work as good or better than Turnbull, and at much more reasonable prices too! Sounds like you need to expand your imagination!


My SS check, not my imagination, is what needs expansion.
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #50 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 10:19am
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Redsetter wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 10:59pm:
marlinguy wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 9:23pm:
† And as hard as it might be to believe, there are a fair number of great restoration gunsmiths today doing work as good or better than Turnbull, and at much more reasonable prices too! Sounds like you need to expand your imagination!


My SS check, not my imagination, is what needs expansion.


Well you said you couldn't imagine any oof them doing such a thing, so I figured you  needed more imagination.
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #51 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 1:15pm
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I like restored guns.
Not as much as old originals, even in some pretty rough shape.
If someone has already "restored" a gun to new condition, what should we do, ignore it because the collector value is gone?
Aren't some still shooters; better with a fresh barrel?
Aaron

  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #52 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 2:07pm
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Rebel wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 1:15pm:
I like restored guns.
Not as much as old originals, even in some pretty rough shape.
If someone has already "restored" a gun to new condition, what should we do, ignore it because the collector value is gone?
Aren't some still shooters; better with a fresh barrel?
Aaron



I wish every gun I owned was a gorgeous original, but my budget wont allow that. And I'm not going to simply stop purchasing guns I love because they're mostly well used. Well used wont make me want to restore a gun, but well used and abused wont stop me from buying it either.
Since I can do most of the restoration work, and send the end product out for CCH and rust bluing, it allows me to afford some gun I otherwise might pass up. It will only be original once, and I love those. But I'm very happy with those I've saved from the parts bin, and gotten back to how they were when they were new! It's always good to hear someone express interest in a gun I restored 10-15 years ago, and they think it's a nice original. I love telling them it's restored and seeing the look on their face when they hear that.
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #53 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:37pm
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Sort of off subject, but had to replace the tumbler in a ML rifle I built for a friend about 45 years ago.
Rifle has killed several elk, miles in a saddle boot, and won more than a few matches.
Full cock notch finally fatigued. You would be hard pressed to tell the rifle from an original except for the name on the barrel.
The friend's son and grand-son are using it now. Guess the guarantee is my lifetime.
Chuck
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #54 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 9:15am
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I used to know a couple of gunsmiths who used to up grade Parker shotguns. They were always up front that the guns were upgraded with wonderful engraving and case coloring. The stocks were exhibition grade walnut with meticulous checkering. I have always wondered how many of those guns were sold at auction as high grade or whatever as opposed to the field grade they really were. Most auction houses know very little about anything that isnít factory and almost nothing about cartridges before WWII.
40 Rod
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #55 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 9:47am
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40_Rod wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 9:15am:
I used to know a couple of gunsmiths who used to up grade Parker shotguns. They were always up front that the guns were upgraded with wonderful engraving and case coloring. The stocks were exhibition grade walnut with meticulous checkering. I have always wondered how many of those guns were sold at auction as high grade or whatever as opposed to the field grade they really were. Most auction houses know very little about anything that isnít factory and almost nothing about cartridges before WWII.
40 Rod


I guess that's always been my one concern with old guns I've restored for myself. Some of them I finished 20 years ago, and after 20 years of careful use they are beginning to look like well maintained originals. I've wondered how they'll be presented after I'm gone and nobody tells the buyer they're restored?
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #56 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 1:38pm
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40_Rod wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 9:15am:
I used to know a couple of gunsmiths who used to up grade Parker shotguns. They were always up front that the guns were upgraded with wonderful engraving and case coloring. The stocks were exhibition grade walnut with meticulous checkering.


A couple!† Hershel Chadick in Texas operated a "Parker factory" in the '70s & '80s to rebuild, particularly, the large numbers of Damascus guns that otherwise had no takers.† (Then I mean--they probably would have now if any escaped rebarreling by Hershel.)† And I promise you there was no "up front" when he sold them!

Ditto for that even more notorious Luger faker, Ralph Shattuck.
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #57 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 12:37pm
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[quote author=3C30233D383F362428510 link=1504133982/46#46 date=1504724276] Sounds like the auction house knows who's estate it belongs to, but for privacy reasons wont reveal it.
quote]

I found a gun at auction that is a Custom Winchester scheutzen built by Dan Dryer
with a serial number of 119367 very close to mine anybody know who Dan Dryer is?
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #58 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 7:04pm
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WALNUT HILL wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 12:37pm:
I found a gun at auction that is a Custom Winchester scheutzen built by Dan Dryer
with a serial number of 119367 very close to mine anybody know who Dan Dryer is?


Close in serial number, or close in appearance? Or both?
  

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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #59 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 10:07pm
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I suspect the name is misspelled - Probably Dan Dwyer of San Diego, an oldtime and well respected gunsmith.  Inventor of the "Group Gripper" for the .45 auto.  Passed away in 1996 at age 89.

Regards, Joe
  
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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 LOW WALL SCHUETZEN RIFLE
Reply #60 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:10pm
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 7:04pm:
WALNUT HILL wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 12:37pm:
I found a gun at auction that is a Custom Winchester scheutzen built by Dan Dryer
with a serial number of 119367 very close to mine anybody know who Dan Dryer is?


Close in serial number, or close in appearance? Or both?


close in serial number a few hundred away
  
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