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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens 44 1/2 Project (Read 1529 times)
uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #15 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:04pm
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 7:26pm:
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Would interchangeable links in a Ballard be easier, or would that mess up the lock up and cause lever dropping?


Yes Bob, a link in a Ballard makes huge issues if it's not the correct length. So couldn't do a link on a Ballard to change firing pin height.


Which is, I suspose, why Ballard had the reversible firing pin.
  

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uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #16 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:11pm
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 6:13pm:
Maybe it is the lack of a canned digital program?  Roll Eyes


CNC lathes easily dispensed with the trick of offsetting the tailstock to cut tapers.  I can't recall any lathe designed for CNC that would allow that.  You'd have to work out a way to hold the breech end offset in the chuck.  And CNC operators/programmers don't think that way.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #17 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:29pm
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uscra112 wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:11pm:
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 6:13pm:
Maybe it is the lack of a canned digital program?  Roll Eyes


CNC lathes easily dispensed with the trick of offsetting the tailstock to cut tapers.  I can't recall any lathe designed for CNC that would allow that.  You'd have to work out a way to hold the breech end offset in the chuck.  And CNC operators/programmers don't think that way. 


The offset shank doesn't have anything to do with cutting tapers. It simply cuts the shank portion (prior to threading) off center, so the bore isn't centered on the CF firing pin. Allows the CF pin to strike the rim of a .22RF cartridge.
  

Vall
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marlinguy
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #18 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:32pm
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uscra112 wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:04pm:
Which is, I suspose, why Ballard had the reversible firing pin. 


A small part of the reversible firing pin design. They could have easily done like everyone else and made two different firing pins for RF and CF. The main reason for the reversible firing pin was the calibers that were offered at that time in both RF and CF offerings. The .32 Long, .38 Long, and .44 Long all had RF and CF cartridges, so that was the real reason for the reversible firing pin system on Ballard rifles.
  

Vall
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #19 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:46pm
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:29pm:
uscra112 wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:11pm:
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 6:13pm:
Maybe it is the lack of a canned digital program?  Roll Eyes


CNC lathes easily dispensed with the trick of offsetting the tailstock to cut tapers.  I can't recall any lathe designed for CNC that would allow that.  You'd have to work out a way to hold the breech end offset in the chuck.  And CNC operators/programmers don't think that way. 


The offset shank doesn't have anything to do with cutting tapers. It simply cuts the shank portion (prior to threading) off center, so the bore isn't centered on the CF firing pin. Allows the CF pin to strike the rim of a .22RF cartridge.



Mm'OK.   That would leave the barrel OD offset with respect to the receiver.  Wouldn't show on a single shot.  I'm remembering a Krag I saw at a show in MIchigan that had the offset bore. The offset should be obvious there.  Maybe I just didn't notice.   Embarrassed
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #20 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:48pm
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If the bore were off center full length, it probably wouldn't really matter in a heavy target barrel.  Any thoughys?
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #21 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 10:52pm
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:48pm:
If the bore were off center full length, it probably wouldn't really matter in a heavy target barrel.  Any thoughys?


Both of mine have the bore offset, but since it's only the threaded shank the bore is still centered in the barrel. They both sit low to the receiver, but since it only takes 1/8" offset to strike the rim, it's not noticeable as it sits to the receiver. I had to look it over closely to see whether it was up or down. Of course the bore is centered on the outside flats of the barrel, so you don't notice it anywhere else.
When I bought the Zettler Ballard I pulled the breechblock to see how they converted it to RF. I was surprised to see it wasn't converted, so I looked further to see what was going on. With the breech block out of the way it was easier to look at the barrel shank at the rear and see the bore looked offset.
I'll try to get a couple pictures tomorrow with the breech block removed so it will be clearer than my explanation.
  

Vall
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #22 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 1:11am
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My Ballard is obviously off center at the breech end.

I am wondering if there would be any issues having the bore off center full length other than muzzle aesthetics?
  

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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #23 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 1:45am
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Hey thanks folks for the input.  Its going to be a long project requiring much thought and consideration.

How does the extractor work out for this sort of arrangement (offset bore) from 22RF to something like the 30-30 case.

Cheers
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #24 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 9:46am
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 1:11am:
My Ballard is obviously off center at the breech end.

I am wondering if there would be any issues having the bore off center full length other than muzzle aesthetics?


I can't see how it would hurt, but seems like a lot of metal to remove to contour the entire barrel off center to the bore. Might be an issue on a lighter weight barrel, but not on one of around 1" or larger.
But it could really affect the value, as everyone who saw the offset of the bore to the outside dimensions would think something was wrong.
  

Vall
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frnkeore
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #25 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 1:40pm
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Offsetting the bore to the outside of the barrel, is easy, using a 2 jaw chuck.

You just indicate the chuck center on the milling machine, offset in the axis of one of the jaws and bore through at the barrel diameter. Nothing else to do and it repetes at the same offset, anytime you want to do it again, by just putting the jaws back on the chuck.

Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #26 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 3:17pm
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frnkeore wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 1:40pm:
Offsetting the bore to the outside of the barrel, is easy, using a 2 jaw chuck.

You just indicate the chuck center on the milling machine, offset in the axis of one of the jaws and bore through at the barrel diameter. Nothing else to do and it repetes at the same offset, anytime you want to do it again, by just putting the jaws back on the chuck.

Frank


But then you have to rifle it, and do all the other steps of making a new barrel. And as I mentioned, you have a weird offset hole at the muzzle end. If you're starting out with a .22RF barrel already bored center, it's a simple thing to just offset the barrel shank, thread it, and chamber for .22RF.

Here's the pictures of my #6 Schuetzen, converted to a .22 match rifle by Zettlers. Notice how the top flat sits a bit low to the receiver top?

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The muzzle end of the barrel:
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Original Ballard CF breech block:

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Offset shank, which is high, and sits the bore center lower to strike the 12 o'clock position on the rim:

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Vall
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #27 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 3:31pm
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Vall! What have you been shooting in that thing? It's done split the block right half in two!
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #28 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 4:05pm
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oneatatime wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 3:31pm:
Vall! What have you been shooting in that thing? It's done split the block right half in two!


I've got these really hot .22 Shorts! I think they're some sort of "assault rifle" ammo Chauncey! I just added some screws to the two halves that split, and it's all good again! Charles Ballard should have done that in the beginning!
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Stevens 44 1/2 Project
Reply #29 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:01pm
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frnkeore wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 1:40pm:
Offsetting the bore to the outside of the barrel, is easy, using a 2 jaw chuck.

You just indicate the chuck center on the milling machine, offset in the axis of one of the jaws and bore through at the barrel diameter. Nothing else to do and it repetes at the same offset, anytime you want to do it again, by just putting the jaws back on the chuck.

Frank


Seems like that should be a lot easier than converting an action to RF.
  

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