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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Black rifles (Read 856 times)
waterman
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Black rifles
Sep 9th, 2017 at 9:01pm
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I'm an elderly flatulent who does not even own a camo jacket.  I have never shot a black rifle, just swore at the black rifle shooters who pelted me with hot empties.  But now I want to learn about them.  I decided to ask you guys because I am sure that somebody on this forum has the answers I am looking for.

Specifically, what does it take to make one?  I assume that they are intended to be made on CNC-controlled machinery.  How much does the software cost?  What sort of metal is needed?  Where do the barrels come from?
  
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westerner
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #1 - Sep 9th, 2017 at 9:12pm
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I held one once but only because it's really a percussion muzzle loader.  Chuck kept bugging me to pose with it.  I did it but I didn't like it.  As he was taking the picture I kept saying , hurry up hurry up. Then I went to the creek and washed my hands.



               Joe.   Smiley
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #2 - Sep 9th, 2017 at 9:16pm
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Barrels are available from many sources, as are the rest of the parts. The lower receivers are available as an 80% finished part that can be finished on a conventional mill. Probably the easiest way to go would be to purchase a complete upper along with a lower parts kit and if you have the skills and tools, an 80% lower and finish it. Then have it anodized in the color of your choosing. Assembly is not hard but there are a lot of small springs and detents that you kind of have to be careful of not loosing any of.
They are also available in a variety of calibers other than the standard 5.56/.223. They can be quite accurate and very pleasurable to shoot. They are, however, a pain in the behind to clean. The military standard is to clean it every day for 3 days to get all of the carbon out of it.
Hope this helps you some.
Sam
  
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OkeyMaple
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #3 - Sep 9th, 2017 at 10:36pm
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Some of the BR set at my club have seriously challenged results achieved by custom bolt guns. Les Baer will sell you a competitive rifle for $2,700.00 +-. Most of the guys are assembling pieces/parts from a variety of sources for less $. .223 is most popular. 6.5 Creedmore coming on strong. All depends on what range you want to shoot. 100-200 most common. 300 - 600 - 1000 ....... you name it. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm happy with s.s.

  

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uscra112
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #4 - Sep 9th, 2017 at 11:27pm
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Only about a zillion web sites about ARs.  Discussion sites, brag sites, self-help sites, commercial sites.  Take you years to take it all in. 

Just don't get taken in by the plastic receiver crowd.  Yes, there are molded resin 80% receivers on the market.  They are junk.

My advice:  Buy a cheap ready-made one and get it out of your system.  We'll forgive you.
  

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beltfed
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #5 - Sep 9th, 2017 at 11:28pm
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nuclearcricket,
Cleaning the carbon out of the carrier has long ago evolved since the ammo was no longer loaded with high calcium chloride burn rate deterent. Early days of our shooting ARs, we had been loading with Win 748 and every match we had to cut the carbon out of our bolt carriers with a drill.
But then we switched to Hodgdon's Varget-a short stick powder w/o all that deterent coating.  Viola!.
We can now shoot hundreds of rounds in a couple days of practice , or all week at Perry w/o having a bolt carrier foul out and giving problems.
beltfed/arnie
  
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uscra112
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #6 - Sep 9th, 2017 at 11:39pm
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Trivia:  It was calcium carbonate, and they added it to soak up any residual acid from the nitrating process. They still do, but not as much now.  They don't want to take the time to wash it properly, I guess. 

+1 on Varget.  Better numbers and less muzzle flash.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #7 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 10:09am
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Considering how inexpensive the AR style rifles are at this time, it makes no sense to make one. My last Cabelas ad came a couple days ago and they had AR15's for $429 after a $50 rebate. You can't build one for that price.
  

Vall
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #8 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 11:35am
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 10:09am:
Considering how inexpensive the AR style rifles are at this time, it makes no sense to make one. My last Cabelas ad came a couple days ago and they had AR15's for $429 after a $50 rebate. You can't build one for that price.

I don't really pay a lot of attention to them,  but it seems like my casual observations out of the corner of my eye saw them around 1000 to 1500 not too long ago.  What happened? Obama/Hillary concerns fade out with Trump's election crashing the market?
  

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George Babits
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #9 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 4:42pm
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I sure as heck hope it never comes to the point where I'll need one.  But, I think that if I ever have a use for one, I'll be able to pick one up off the street that someone dropped running away.  Probably lots of ammunition too. 

George
  
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waterman
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #10 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 5:02pm
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George Babits wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 4:42pm:
I sure as heck hope it never comes to the point where I'll need one.  But, I think that if I ever have a use for one, I'll be able to pick one up off the street that someone dropped running away.  Probably lots of ammunition too. 

George


Those were my thoughts, George, except that I am a one-legged pessimist.  The black rifles have been with us as civilians for something like 50 years.  How many are in the hands of civilians?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #11 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 7:21pm
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I've owned 3 of them over 35-40 years. Every time I saw one cheap I bought it. Then when things went nutty I sold them at big bucks. Might be time to buy again. When I saw the various prices at Cabelas flyer, there were others in the $750 and under range, and all were name brands.
I think the market is flooded with every rifle and pistol maker getting into the AR15 clone business, so that and the election means a glut of them!
  

Vall
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #12 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 8:23pm
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Sounds like time to buy, post some Hillary for president signs and sell  Cheesy
  

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bohemianway
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #13 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 8:28pm
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I have several connections with the ammunition and arms industries and my advice is "wait". This is only the beginning of a long slide in prices. They are predicting a 50% decrease in .22rf prices and there is a stockpile building rapidly of ammo and firearms.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Black rifles
Reply #14 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 8:37pm
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bohemianway wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 8:28pm:
I have several connections with the ammunition and arms industries and my advice is "wait". This is only the beginning of a long slide in prices. They are predicting a 50% decrease in .22rf prices and there is a stockpile building rapidly of ammo and firearms.


Can't imagine they'll get below the $429 price that Cabelas has. They do have a certain cost involved in manufacturing, and wont sell below that.
  

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