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Bulseyetom
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Fireforming with Graf's brass
Sep 10th, 2017 at 6:36pm
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Went to the range this morning to break in the barrel on my Borchardt in 30-40 Krag Improved.  I shot 12 of New unfired Graf cases and 13 unfired Remington.  4 of the Graff cases split in the shoulder.  None of the Remington cases split.  Looks like if I want to use Graf cases I better get rigged to start annealing them.  I wonder how the JBA brass is?  Tom
  
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Hiwall55
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #1 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 1:25pm
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I just got done fireforming 100 Grafs brass to 40-60 Maynard and all formed perfectly.
  
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Reverend Al
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #2 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 4:07pm
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How heavy was your fire-forming load?  Often light loads will cause case splitting especially in the shoulder area while heavier, full power loads will fire-form perfectly.  Maybe your load was a bit too light?  Just a thought ...
  
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beltfed
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #3 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 4:52pm
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But, apparently, the RP brass was fine with that "possibly
light" FF load.
AND, perhaps the grafs 3040 brass varies in its temper
lot to lot.
????
beltfed/arnie
  
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emmett22405
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #4 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:54am
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I too had major problems forming 40-60 maynard from Graf's 30-40 brass; lost a lot even with first annealing.   Splits caused me to back down forming charge (10 gr, Unique) under media and wax plug; but lesser charges did not blow out to chamber dimensions often took a second or even 3rd attempt.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #5 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 1:49pm
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    Forming cases up to larger diameters is best done with a many-stepped expander plug, about 0.050 or so per step.   Much more uniform result than the oft-recommended fast powder and cornmeal, etc.   It is quite straightforward to bring 30-30's up to 38-55 in one pass, as well as 30-40's up to 40 cal.

CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
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John Boy
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #6 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 3:50pm
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Quote:
4 of the Graff cases split in the shoulder.

Graff doesn't make brass - they buy from different vendors.  Call them and tell them you had split cases.  Then ask who made the brass ... and I'll bet you it was Bertram!  Pure shit brass and recommend never to buy Bertrams.  Buy quality Jamisom or Rocky Mountain Cartridge, that are lathe turned not drawn brass

I bought 20 cases of Bertram 25-21 and 14 split down the
wall
  

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John
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #7 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 3:58pm
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Back when I started BPCR Bertram was the only source of anything longer than 45-70. The quality was so poor, everyone shot long throated 45-70 to get space for powder rather than 2.6 ECT.  Sounds like nothing has changed over there  Cry
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Hiwall55
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #8 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:57pm
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Grafs bought the 30-40 brass from Captech (formerly Jamisons) and I've found that using any kind of wad,even wax will make the cases split. I use 9.5 grains of bullseye and fill with COW abd shoot the gun straight up,wipe the barrel, set it back in the railing and load the next shell and fire. I've done 500 or so ,Win,Rem and just got done with 100 Grafs and never split one case. 40-60 Maynard and 38-50 rem.
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #9 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 5:04am
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I'll have to disagree about Bertram brass - I have quite some no.2 Musket, and it is just fine, I've been using it for close to 7 years now without any issues (other than operator malfunction...).  The only gripe is that the stuff is pretty expensive.  And yes, when purchased it did require annealing.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #10 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 1:35pm
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The only Bertam brass I've ever used is my batch of 40 cases in .40-82, and they've been hanging in there for about twenty years now. Though seldom used (the rifle isn't very accurate), the cases have given no trouble. I never crimp them and only shoot single loaded in the old '86, but not cracks or splits.  I got them never knowing that they were so suspect in everybody's estimation. Maybe it's like the honey bee that hasn't been told it can't fly?
  
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uscra112
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Re: Fireforming with Graf's brass
Reply #11 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 7:54pm
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Jamison/Captech brass is drawn, not turned.  Turned brass is in my mind questionable, since mills don't make proper cartridge brass alloy in bar form. 

This .25 Stevens rimfire from .17 HMR project has required many slight expansions in sequence using shallow-tapered mandrels.  No other way, since it can't be annealed.  Careful chamfering of the mouths, inside and out helps.  Seems to eliminate stress raisers.
  

Jack of All Trades - Retired
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