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oneatatime
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.219 Donaldson Wasp
Dec 27th, 2017 at 8:08pm
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Temperature got above freezing today so out to the range I went to try out the Stevens 44 1/2 with a Hauck barrel in the long bodied, long necked version of the 219 Donaldson Wasp. The Wasp had a reputation as being accurate back in the day, like 3/8 inch groups, so I had my fingers crossed. This was just to be an exploratory session as the brass (formed for me from 30-30 by Ten-Mile) I figured would benefit from fire forming to the chamber before I got serious. I picked some loads that I thought would not have excessive pressure using the vintage powders 4064, 4320, 4895, 3031, and 4198. I did 3-shot groups at 100 with .5 grain spacing between groups. The bullet I picked to start with (just because I thought the 45s would do better when I got serious) was a vintage Sierra 40 grain .223 Hornet and I just picked a convenient OAL of 2.256. I was shooting from a bench off of sand bags - and shivering a little. To cut to the chase, only 2 loads (4198 and 3031) made it up to 1 inch. The smallest groups (4064, 4320, and 4895) were .50, .54 and .52 inches and next smallest .60, .66 and .74. For fun I shot 1 group at 50 yards with Lyman 225438 GC and 10 grains of 4227. It went into .45. Bottom line, I think it will be fun and rewarding to work with this cartridge and I try not to think about how many thousands of high pressure loads must have been through this barrel in the last 60 years or so.
  
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Longdistance1
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #1 - Dec 27th, 2017 at 11:45pm
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Very Good groups for a fireforming loads,  It will be interesting to see your groups when you arn't shivering like a dog passing thumb tacks. Grin Grin
LD1
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #2 - Dec 28th, 2017 at 10:42am
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Sounds like a gun that just wants to shoot accurately with so many good groups from various loads!
  

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don1885
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #3 - Dec 28th, 2017 at 11:17am
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My money is on 4064 and the Sierra 52 HP. It will make you  Smiley.
  

Don
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oneatatime
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #4 - Dec 28th, 2017 at 12:33pm
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Yes, I can see that might be. 4064 and 4895 seemed to be the most consistent. 25.5 grains of 4064 was .6 and 27 grains was .5. 26 and 26.5 both had 2 shots cutting and one that brought it above .6. Probably my shivers. 4895 had 26.5 for .66, 27 for .52 and 27.5 opened to .74. The 27.5 of 4895 also showed the highest pressure signs so I wouldn't repeat that one with a heavier bullet. 4064 could probably go to 27.5 but I tend to stay on the conservative side. The next series of tests will be with those 2 powders and 45 grain 223 Hornets and with Lyman 225415s and 4227. After that the winners will probably get tried with different bullet seating depths. I've never shot serious benchrest so I've got to improve my technique there.
  
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art_ruggiero
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #5 - Dec 28th, 2017 at 2:53pm
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great info,  keep it coming   art
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #6 - Dec 28th, 2017 at 3:22pm
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Very nice groups. Thinking that when Hauck was making barrels the shift to .224 diameter had taken place. You may have already slugged the bore, so switching bullets might make for considerable improvement, if the groove diameter is .224. Those .223 bullets are made for early 22 Hornet barrels, and would not generally give as good results in a .224 bore. You may be well aware of all this dribble, but thought to pass along just in case. My Donaldson shoots a Bob Cauterucio 52 grain really well, but he passed recently and so I will be looking for a replacement. There are lots of really good benchrest quality bullets out there, just need to find one it likes as well. In other 22s I have had very good results with Sierra Blitzkings for varmints and targets. Good luck in your quest, and keep us up with your progress. Mine liked 3031 best.  best regards Krag
  

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oneatatime
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #7 - Dec 28th, 2017 at 7:18pm
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This Hauck barrel does slug about .2233. Donaldson wrote back when that he got better results shooting oversize i.e. .224 bullets in .223 barrels. We'll see how that works when I get through the .223 ones I have on hand. I know that 3031 was considered to be the powder for Wasp target loads at one time. At the level I was loading, it wasn't showing it. However, pressure wise I have room with it for .5 and 1 more grain to try and it may be also that it needs a heavier bullet to show its stuff. So many options!
  
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Bonner
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #8 - Dec 30th, 2017 at 11:03pm
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This is a W.W. Greener by P.O.Ackley in 219 wasp. I shoot 55 gr V-Max over 4895. I am trying to send a photo, If it works I will send more. Bonner
  
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oneatatime
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #9 - Jan 1st, 2018 at 8:44pm
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I just finished loading the rounds for the next series of tests. I had mentioned that I was using vintage powders. I hadn't realized just how vintage some of them were until I happened to look at the original price tag on the can of 4064 I was using. Does $3.99 sound like vintage or more like ancient?
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #10 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 1:26pm
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Hey! I remember paying 50 cents for surplus Hodgdon powder and I would still much prefer vintage over ancient. Krag
  

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oneatatime
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #11 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 8:59pm
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I'm becoming a believer in the old adage that the 219 Donaldson Wasp is one of those inherently accurate cartridges. I got out to the range and it wasn't quite cold enough for shivers but I did have a bit of a 90 degree cross wind. Can't have everything. I wanted to try some 45 grain 223 Hornet bullets but first I had a few more 40 grainers so I tried a bit more powder in those loads that shot well and weren't showing pressure signs. I'm still getting the 2 shots close, touching, cutting, or one holing (.07 c-to-c) and then one opening to .6 or .7 but I did try to improve my bench rest - well, off the sandbag technique - for this go round. Anyway, increasing the 4320 got me to .48 and I still can up it some. With the 45 grainers I still got the 1 and 2 thing but 25 grains of 3031 gave .53 with room for more powder. I tried some VV N135 and the 2 loads I tried had high pressure but interesting results that might be worth testing some lighter loads. One load made a vertical string .79 high and .09 wide. The other load was .70 but two in the same hole. For my lead bullet tests I had 225415s with 4227 this time at 100. With two loads 4 out of 5 went into an inch. I seated the all the bullets to the same length as my first tests with the 40 grainers so eventually I'll have to play with OAL on the best looking loads. Remember the chamber has a long throat by design so it isn't just a matter of touching the lands which would also put pressures where I wouldn't want them. I never thought that I'd be worrying about reducing groups that are hovering around a half inch but I know you real bench resters do it all the time.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #12 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:53pm
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Got back out to the range today for some followups on the 45 grain Sierra .223 loads. It was cool but not numbingly so even though I did have to stop and warm my shooting hand every now and then. Our range is sort of downhill from the benches to the targets and my front rest was too high to keep the butt on the rear bag so it was sitting on my fist. I really need to get a more solid rest combo as the crosshairs were wiggling around on the 3/4 inch 25 center of the ASSRA 100 yard targets. So the best 3 loads for the day were 25 grains of 3031 at .71, 27 grains of 4064 for .73, and 28.5 grains of 4320 for .74. Here are the results of the 3032 and 4320 shots so you can see it is trying but is probably disgusted with me for my efforts at holding steady. On the whole I'm thinking the 40 grainers might be more consistent and once I get around to testing different seating depths and nailing that I should have a 40 vs 45 shoot off. I should have mentioned that while this was going on the wind shifted from ENE to SE but I was making more difference than the wind so ignored it.
« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:01pm by oneatatime »  
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art_ruggiero
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #13 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 10:24am
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looks like great fun  see what higher temps do to the pressures    art
  
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Re: .219 Donaldson Wasp
Reply #14 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 12:52pm
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Since your not limiting yourself to the old timey powders now, give Varget a try. It did the best in my 225 Win, against 4064 and 4895. You can use the same charges as the other two. I was able to go 1/2 grain more than 4064 in mine.

Mine is 15 twist and the best accuracy was with Hornaday 55 gr SX.

Frank
  

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