Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) .22 Hornet quiz. (Read 5160 times)
only1shot
Junior Forum Member
**
Offline



Posts: 57
Location: Burton, Michigan
Joined: Mar 27th, 2015
.22 Hornet quiz.
Mar 12th, 2018 at 10:08am
Print Post  
  Hi all:
With all the unbelievable knowledge of single shot information of people on this site, I have a quiz for you.

1. Who was the first "modern" , as we know it today, .22 Hornet rifle made for? There was a cartridge called the Hornet in the 1890's (not the modern version.)

2. What kind of rifle was used for this modern Hornet?

3. What brand of rifle barrel was used?

4.Who made the stock and forend?

5. Who made the chambering reamer?

6.What brand of target telescope was used on the rifle?

7. What size and power was the scope?

8. Who came up with the name for the modern Hornet? What year?

9. Who were the "Four W's" responsible for the development of the modern Hornet?

  Good luck, and you have 30 minutes to complete this quiz! (just kidding).

Before I found out the answers, I only knew number 8!

  I look forward to all of your responses.

    Have fun,

        Bill.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #1 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:11pm
Print Post  
The "modern" Hornet arrived with great fanfare in the form of detailed write-ups by most of its developers in the Rifleman (Wotkyns first in 1930), so its history has never been obscure.  Whelen is often given most credit, but he was only an enthusiastic promoter, not the developer; that distinction belongs to ordnance officer G. Wotkyns, who in 1929 chambered Hornet #1 in his own BSA Martini fitted with a M1922 Springfield brl.  #2, belonging to Al Woodworth, and later Hornets were rechambered 1922s.  Whelen did however name the cartridge after the original (& unsuccessful) BP cartridge based on the .25-20 case...which with smokeless was later reinvented as the .218 Bee.

Don't know offhand who cut the reamer, but if it wasn't Wotkyns I'd guess Woodworth, and I presume the work (except for the Martini, which was a G&H job) was done at Springfield Armory.
« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:18pm by Redsetter »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2681
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #2 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm
Print Post  
I'm not an expert, but have read a lot of old writings in my collection, and Redsetter's info sure jibes with my recollection of the story as told in the old gun mags. Good memory, because I couldn't have related it, but needed the prodding he gave to loosen the cobwebs. Good job.
  

happily ignored by J. "Sonny" Louis
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6641
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #3 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:27pm
Print Post  
Redsetter has it right.    I was going to try to answer from memory, then decided no.  Looking through several books he’s spot on.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 6193
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #4 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:34pm
Print Post  
I was going to research it but I knew the answers would be here shortly  Cheesy

Very interesting, thankks for posting.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Deadeye Bly
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 695
Location: Stephens City
Joined: Feb 25th, 2011
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #5 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:40pm
Print Post  
I wanted to read  about Reuben Harwood's baby, the Harwood Hornet from 1894.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #6 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm
Print Post  
Deadeye Bly wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:40pm:
I wanted to read  about Reuben Harwood's baby, the Harwood Hornet from 1894.


It passed into history when he died.  It's major problem was BP, always troublesome in small-bores, but on the other hand, Winchester sold a LOT of '85s in .22 WCF. (Try to find one with a really good bore!)  Maybe competition from .22 WCF, for the limited number of shooters interested in a .22CF, helped do it in.

I haven't found out for sure whether the cases Harwood used were .25-20 SS or repeater.  Harvey Donaldson talked about it in one of his articles for Rifle, but didn't specify which case he meant.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Wapiti
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 133
Location: Colorado
Joined: Jun 6th, 2006
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #7 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 5:58pm
Print Post  
Congratulations on finding that June, 1930 RIFLEMAN article by Capt. Wotkyns.

Did you also find the January '31 article by Whelen?

FWIW, Capt. Wotkyn's obituary is in the July '45 AR.

More info on TW's  M1922M1 Springfield was published in PRECISION SHOOTING in 2000.

Good shooting. Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #8 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 6:57pm
Print Post  
Wapiti wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 5:58pm:
More info on TW's  M1922M1 Springfield was published in PRECISION SHOOTING in 2000.


Written by the late Mark Benenson, who was a gun-show acquaintance of mine. Vaguely remember hearing it wound up in a big auction (maybe Amoskeag) after his death.

Have been lucky enough to acquire all Rifleman issues beginning in the 'teens, when it was still Arms/Man.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7985
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #9 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 11:52pm
Print Post  
Deadeye Bly wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:40pm:
I wanted to read  about Reuben Harwood's baby, the Harwood Hornet from 1894.

Deadeye Bly,
There's a one page advertisement for Reuben Harwood on page 74 of the Ideal Hand Book No. 5
Among other things, it mentions that a .22-15 W.C.F. barrel can be rechambered for Harwood's .22-20 Hornet.
There's also an illustration of the cartridge case.     Wink

  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6641
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #10 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:52am
Print Post  
Mark Benson (or was it Brenson ? Can’t give the exact spelling) Redsetter please confirm,  displayed that M 1922 . 22 Hornet at the Baltimore Gun show years ago.   Was able to look at a distance. Thing that stuck me, working rifle, not fancy. Always liked a well made working gun, it impressed me. 

He was a strong buyer of period Springfield Arsenal and sporter modified US bolt actions. Used to run want to buy adds.  I guess when he passed the collection was broken up.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2575
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #11 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:43am
Print Post  
Harwood's Hornet, also called the .22-20, was based on the .25-20 Single Shot case.  The groove diameter is .228".  Was it truly a wildcat?  I have a catalog that lists .22-20 as a Stevens factory chambering in 1895.  Obviously it soon disappeared. 

In restoring the chamber in a Model 108 Stevens I found that Harwood's Hornet is remarkably close to being a .22 Lovell R2 with a very long neck.  In fact I used my R2 Lovell reamer to repair the damage done by "Bubba" Parkenfarker, who had tried to convert the rifle to the modern Hornet.   

The cartridge that became the .218 Bee was the Niedner "Baby", which he made from .25-20 WCF brass.  As another interesting coincidence, the Baby-Bee has the same internal capacity as the much later R2 Lovell. 

Photo of my Harwood project brass.  Far left is .25-20 Single Shot.  Next is that case run into an original (slow taper) .22 Lovell die. Middle is a finished "Harwood" case, made in a handmade die using my Lovell R2 reamer.  Second from right is a Harwood case with a bullet ready to be seated.  Far right is a .22 Lovell R2 case.    
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2575
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #12 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:50am
Print Post  
Here are a modern Hornet case and my Harwood case, side by side.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redsetter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3468
Location: New York
Joined: Aug 6th, 2013
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #13 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:53am
Print Post  
boats wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:52am:
Used to run want to buy adds. Boats


His 10 page "wanted" lists were famous--mostly stuff I'd never seen or expected to see...especially since I never traveled the way he did, to the biggest shows all over the country.

Benenson is the name.    
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6641
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: .22 Hornet quiz.
Reply #14 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:03am
Print Post  
Thanks, nice obit from the N.Y. Times, google it.

MARK K. BENENSON
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint