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tornadobelt
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1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:03pm
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I have an 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 rim fire. 7 o'clock extractor, "Favorite" indicated only on the butt plate, no visible serial number, no caliber markings, but it does chamber the .32. de Haas indicates in his chapter on the Favorites that he had never seen an 1889 in .32 but assumed they existed. Mine is in excellent original condition, seems to have been very little used.  I fired 3 rounds of Canuck .32 rim fire, and all three spent cartridges would not extract. Had to tap them out with a cleaning rod. My questions: How scarce is it? What might be a value range? Thanks.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #1 - Mar 23rd, 2018 at 11:40pm
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The fact that it has no serial # or caliber marking leads me to believe that it could be an employe built gun never made for sale. Any other opinions here? Possibly built from parts by an employee.  While Stevens made some models without caliber markings I don't recall ever seeing a Favorite un marked.
  
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tornadobelt
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #2 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 7:43am
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Sorta like a Johnny Cash Cadillac?
de Haas pp. 105-106 says "There were no caliber markings anywhere on the rifle. One specimen had no serial number, while others had this number stamped on the lower tang. The only other markings were on the hard rubber butt plate which has the words Stevens Favorite imprinted across it." Mine has this in 2 lines.

de Haas also describes on the top flat of the barrel, in 3 lines: J. Stevens A. & T. Co. / Chicopee Falls, Mass. / Pat. Oct 29 89  Mine has this in 2 lines, bracketed by "bow ties."

He further says, "Specimens of the early Stevens Favorites are quite rare, and although I have not seen one in the .32 rimfire caliber I would assume they were also made in that caliber."
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #3 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 8:49am
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Odd that deHass hadn't seen one in .32RF, as it was a standard catalogued option even into the late '20s.  Odd also that a gun that's seen "little use" should have an extraction problem--which supports slumlord's conjecture about its origin.

Very earliest Favorites had a steel plate, so this hard-rubber plate suggests assembly sometime after about 1900, if I remember Grant's dating correctly.  Does the rcvr. have a "square-cut" profile, which was the earliest design, or a radiused one?  This difference is very obvious, but if you've never seen one of the "square-cuts," it might be difficult to visualize, and there's no photo of it in deHass.
  
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tornadobelt
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #4 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:10am
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Well, Redsetter, de Haas clearly indicates in his description of the 1889s, the earliest Favorites, a "hard rubber" butt plate. As for the extraction issue, the brass swells and gets stuck - I wondered if the Canuck [1950s-60s] ammo might be a bit "hotter" than the 19th century ammo, or some other issue with it. I know, for example, that modern 7mm Mauser ammo is slightly different than the 18th century version. It allows a bit of blow back when fired in, for example, my 1901 Remington rolling block.

As to "little used" in my neck of the woods, farm country, most of these old guns have in the past put a lot of rabbits on the table, and taken a lot of varmits. When they show up they are often quite beat up and worn out.The one I own, not so much.

As to the profile: I looked at a number of images on the web and found some I think are what you refer to - flat surface behind the hammer? These were 1915 models. Mine is curved, top and bottom.
  
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tornadobelt
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #5 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:15am
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And - my receiver is case colored.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #6 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:40am
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tornadobelt wrote on Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:10am:
Well, Redsetter, de Haas clearly indicates in his description of the 1889s, the earliest Favorites, a "hard rubber" butt plate.


He was mistaken about that.

Quote:
As for the extraction issue, the brass swells and gets stuck - I wondered if the Canuck [1950s-60s] ammo might be a bit "hotter" than the 19th century ammo, or some other issue with it.


Maybe, but I've shot plenty of Canuck .32s without extraction problems.

Quote:
As to the profile: I looked at a number of images on the web and found some I think are what you refer to - flat surface behind the hammer? These were 1915 models. Mine is curved, top and bottom.


No, not the 1915 model.  Hard to describe, but when the first variation rcvrs are looked at from the side, the bottom of the barrel shank is clearly visible.
  
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tornadobelt
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #7 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 12:32pm
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Complicated stuff  Shocked

Hmmm! Grant in More Single-Shot ... p.44 quotes Allyn Tedman with reference to the 1894 model, saying: "The Favorite ...always sported a rubber shotgun butt plate.

Thanks for your responses.  I think I will spend some more time reading Grant.  I have all four vols. {Interestingly enough, the 3 later vols. are all inscribed by Grant to Ernest Munkachy - they came out of a Colorado auction a few years ago - Munkachy contributed a couple of photos at pp. 12-13 of Single-Shot ... Finale. I think the same Ernest Munkachy that was the agent for the Huron Valley Gun Collectors Club in Michigan. d. in Colorado.

  
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Redsetter
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #8 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 12:44pm
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tornadobelt wrote on Mar 24th, 2018 at 12:32pm:
I think I will spend some more time reading Grant.  I have all four vols. 


Excellent!  Look at photo B, p. 11, Boys' SS Rifles.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #9 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 1:16pm
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tornadobelt wrote on Mar 24th, 2018 at 12:32pm:
Grant in More Single-Shot ... p.44 quotes Allyn Tedman with reference to the 1894 model, saying: "The Favorite ...always sported a rubber shotgun butt plate.


Tedmon is my supreme favorite among gun-writers, and I believe I have copies of everything he ever wrote, but nobody knows everything, including me!  Therefor, I hate to contradict him, but Grant did just that on p. 7, 3rd paragraph from the bottom, Boys' SS Rifles.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #10 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 1:22pm
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To know what Redsetter was talking about the early square cut, Favorites, look up pictures of the Stevens 107 or 108. They are the 44's early, "square cut" frames and will mirror the Favorite.

Frank
  

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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #11 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 2:16pm
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For what it's worth I have one with the square cutaway, but it has the 1894 patent date on the barrel.  Shoots .32 Long RF.  s/n 568xx.   Stamped steel buttplate. 



  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #12 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 3:19pm
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 24th, 2018 at 2:16pm:
For what it's worth I have one with the square cutaway, but it has the 1894 patent date on the barrel.


Appears there was some overlap in use of barrels with the '89 date even after the '94 date began to be used--merely the common practice of continuing to use older parts even after newer ones were in production. Gun in question is a case in point--not an early production rcvr, but has the early production barrel.  Even less surprising if it was put together outside of a normal production run.
  
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tornadobelt
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #13 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 9:14pm
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Thanks for the responses. Just now posted 4 images in the Rifle Photos forum. Maybe that will help regarding some of the issues
  
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uscra112
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #14 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 9:50pm
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Hmmm.   That's definitely not a "square cutout" receiver, but something later.   Could you post a picture of the barrel rollstamp? 

One my early style receivers:

  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #15 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:15pm
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 24th, 2018 at 9:50pm:
Hmmm.   That's definitely not a "square cutout" receiver, but something later.   Could you post a picture of the barrel rollstamp? 

One my early style receivers:



Whole lot better than mine--and I've only got one!
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #16 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:58pm
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I have been looking at Favorites for about 4+ years, on gunbroker, etc as well as a few "in person", primarily recording those who had a visible or stated "serial number".  Maybe can make enough sense out of them to write it up in the near future.  I learned a long time ago never to say never or always.  Favorites have reinforced this philosophy.

Most 7 0'clock extractors had a square cut-out with some variation in the tiny radius.  A majority have a metal buttplate, better made than some of the late 1915s.  Serial numbers MAY be continued from the side plates and continue until the 6 o'clock extractors when the prefix A was added.  Those early As were numbered well above 1000.  Then other prefix letters and at least three other non alphabet figures were used, almost always with letters below 1000, see philosophy above.

Extraction problems seem to be from wear, chamber corrosion and inherent in the 7 o'clock extractor, mine looks like it.

James.

  
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uscra112
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #17 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 4:25am
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Where do you figure the break between square and rounded corner is?   My 56888 is square, and my 83929 is rounded.  (Will look for others in the AM.)   

Wondering where the 7 o'clock extractor was abandoned, too.  If it was around 1901 like the 44s, there must be a lot of 7 o'clocks that fall after the straight sequence serial numbers were abandoned. 
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:20am by uscra112 »  
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tornadobelt
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #18 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:08am
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Barrel roll mark
  
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uscra112
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #19 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:26am
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BTW - I no longer consider deHaas as a final authority on anything.  I've caught him out a couple of other times making statements that turn out to be, (to be polite) uninformed  speculation on his part.   

In all fairness, he was writing a tremendous volume of stuff, which meant he didn't or couldn't take time to exhaustively research everything.  Not a few modern gunwriters have the same problem.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #20 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:59am
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 4:25am:
Wondering where the 7 o'clock extractor was abandoned, too.  If it was around 1901 like the 55s, there must be a lot of 7 o'clocks that fall after the straight sequence serial numbers were abandoned. 


Catalog #51 (1901, I think) illustrates the side & wide central extractors.  By #52 (1905 ?), the narrow central one has become standard.  (Why was that done? The wide central one would be less likely to slip by the rim after the parts became worn, which could become a problem with the side extractor.)
  
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uscra112
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #21 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:12am
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Does Cornell have Catalog #51?   If not, please offer your copy for Abby to reproduce.

What is the evidence that #51 is 1901? 

Narrow extractor is cheaper to make.  QED.



  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #22 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:15am
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:26am:
BTW - I no longer consider deHaas as a final authority on anything.  I've caught him out a couple of other times making statements that turn out to be, (to be polite) uninformed  speculation on his part.   

In all fairness, he was writing a tremendous volume of stuff, which meant he didn't or couldn't take time to exhaustively research everything.  Not a few modern gunwriters have the same problem. 


Tremendous volume is right.  Not only SS (which of course he expanded in "More SS"), but his book on bolt actions is one of the best there is on the mechanical design & function of bolt guns. His little book on set-triggers is like none other I've seen.  Then on top of his writing & research, he obviously spent much time in his shop working out improvements & other modifications on a multitude of different guns. 

Slip-ups under such conditions were inevitable; the marvel is, he got so much right.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #23 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:34am
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:12am:
What is the evidence that #51 is 1901? 


Good question that I can't answer with certainty, because I wrote that date (and also the note, "revised 1903") on the copy I have, which is a very old photocopy unidentified as to maker. Only thing I'm sure of is that the original source for those dates struck me as reliable, or I wouldn't have accepted them.  Now, 30+ yrs later, whenever I make such a notation, I always note the source! 

Quote:
Narrow extractor is cheaper to make.  QED.


Sadly, what I expected--just like ceasing to incorporate a mechanism for holding the lever tight.  Considering the several ultra cheap boys' rifles also in Stevens line, it's disappointing the company felt the need to cheapen one of its most famous products.

  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #24 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 11:22am
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Gotta remember that the man who took over the company when Joshua retired in 1896 was a money man, pure and simple.  Volume, cost control and profit would have been his mantra.   (Fifteen years as a tier one supplier to GM/Ford/Chrysler left me steeped in this way of thinking.) 


  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #25 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 11:44am
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 11:22am:
Gotta remember that the man who took over the company when Joshua retired in 1896 was a money man, pure and simple.


Page the (probably crooked) book-keeper; how else does a clerk acquire the assets to take over the company?
  
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uscra112
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #26 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 11:54am
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Borrowed the money.  Leverage isn't a new concept in corporate finance.   I'm more than a little sure that Westinghouse hijacked the company by talking to his bankers, not to Page himself.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #27 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 5:25pm
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:12am:
Does Cornell have Catalog #51?   If not, please offer your copy for Abby to reproduce.


Not that I can find.  What is their quid pro quo, if you know?
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #28 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 7:00pm
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Profuse thanks? Of course if yours is already a photocopy they might not want it unless it is a really good copy.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #29 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 7:24pm
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Redsetter wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:59am:
uscra112 wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 4:25am:
Wondering where the 7 o'clock extractor was abandoned, too.  If it was around 1901 like the 55s, there must be a lot of 7 o'clocks that fall after the straight sequence serial numbers were abandoned. 


Catalog #51 (1901, I think) illustrates the side & wide central extractors.  By #52 (1905 ?), the narrow central one has become standard.  (Why was that done? The wide central one would be less likely to slip by the rim after the parts became worn, which could become a problem with the side extractor.)

Strange about the dates... the reprint of Catalog #50 shows a date of 1902 on it.
How could the subsequent catalog #51 be dated one year earlier than its predecessor catalog?
Something's fishy.
  

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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #30 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 7:44pm
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oneatatime wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 7:00pm:
Profuse thanks? Of course if yours is already a photocopy they might not want it unless it is a really good copy.


If it's profuse thanks, they're most certainly the envy of the publishing world.

I rate this copy better than the ones they make, because it has paper covers like the originals, not those hideous plasticized covers of theirs.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #31 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 7:46pm
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BP wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 7:24pm:
Strange about the dates... the reprint of Catalog #50 shows a date of 1902 on it.
How could the subsequent catalog #51 be dated one year earlier than its predecessor catalog?


It couldn't; but is that 1902 date printed in the catalog, or a guesstimation?
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #32 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 8:23pm
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Redsetter wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 7:46pm:
BP wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 7:24pm:
Strange about the dates... the reprint of Catalog #50 shows a date of 1902 on it.
How could the subsequent catalog #51 be dated one year earlier than its predecessor catalog?


It couldn't; but is that 1902 date printed in the catalog, or a guesstimation?

The 1902 date is printed, not hand-written, on the spine of the catalog.
Something's fishy.

  

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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #33 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:11pm
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BP wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 8:23pm:
The 1902 date is printed, not hand-written, on the spine of the catalog.


In other words I assume, it's not a date in the original catalog.  However, I think I've just found the source of that date:  there's a catalog date chart in Cope's book that I'd forgotten about, which gives 1902 for #50 and 1904 for #51.

Up to about 1900, catalogs were dated, sometimes month & day, so hard to see the logic in beginning with #50 in '02--unless Stevens really had published 49 catalogs up to that time...a little hard to believe.

But there's something about Cope's chart that is also a bit fishy--he provides numbers for catalogs going through 1942!  Whereas I've never seen a post-war catalog that wasn't dated like those pre-1900.  So don't know whether to trust this chart or not.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #34 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:31pm
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Redsetter wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:11pm:
BP wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 8:23pm:
The 1902 date is printed, not hand-written, on the spine of the catalog.


In other words I assume, it's not a date in the original catalog.  ...

Not in the catalog, but printed on the outer cover of the catalog on the spine (NOT on a slip on dust jacket).
  

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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #35 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:46pm
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BP wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:31pm:
Not in the catalog, but printed on the outer cover of the catalog on the spine (NOT on a slip on dust jacket).


Has anyone seen a date on the spine of an original catalog?  I haven't, though of course I haven't seen them all; still, inclines me to think it was added by Cornell, which could be checked out.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #36 - Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:25pm
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Redsetter wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
BP wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 9:31pm:
Not in the catalog, but printed on the outer cover of the catalog on the spine (NOT on a slip on dust jacket).


Has anyone seen a date on the spine of an original catalog?  I haven't, though of course I haven't seen them all; still, inclines me to think it was added by Cornell, which could be checked out.


Is there a Stevens printed (type-set) date located anywhere on or in your #51 catalog?

  

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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #37 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 12:30am
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BP wrote on Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:25pm:
Is there a Stevens printed (type-set) date located anywhere on or in your #51 catalog?


NO!  If there was, there wouldn't be all this confusion! Beginning with #50, until 1919 when catalogs were dated again, Stevens management apparently thought it would be amusing to keep everyone guessing.

Well, not really, but it's true absolutely that someone decided it would "look better" if a catalog could not be identified as "last year's" merchandise; with only a number, a catalog could seem "ageless."  (Though what can be seen in some numbered catalogs are ink stamps over a particular item that say "discontinued.")
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #38 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 12:54am
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I just looked at my Cornell 1903 catalog copy.  The covers are paper, not plastic.  Inside it says that it is catalog #50.  Never noticed it before, but there it is in black and white.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #39 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 1:12am
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I have an original Stevens #53 catalog, and some pages have the purplish ink stamps over a particular item that reads "This Model Discontinued." It mentions a number of Championships that occurred in the year 1912 that were won with Stevens firearms. One page has a very small 9-01-12 tucked in a lower corner.
Perhaps my original #53 is a revised version of the original #53 catalog, that Cornell made a reprint of and shows with an issue date of 1911.

Phil,
Looking inside my #50 catalog, I see text that says "On January 1, 1902, we were the largest producers of firearms for sporting purposes in the world."
I think it might be safe to say that the #50 Stevens catalog was released after January 1, 1902.

Here's a partial list of Stevens catalogs from Cornell (and it looks like they've already reprinted Redsetter's catalogs so I don't think he need worry about a quid-pro-quo)...
Stevens 1902 - Pope Rifle Barrels and Specialties
Stevens 1903 No. 50 Rifles, Shotguns, Pistols Catalog
Stevens 1903 Gun Telescopes and Mountings Catalog
Stevens c1904 Arms & Tool Company No. 51 (earlier issue)
Stevens c1905 Arms & Tool Co. No.51 (later issue)
Stevens 1907 Arms Company Catalog No 52
Stevens c1908 Shotguns Catalog
Stevens 1908 Guns and Gunning
Stevens 1909 Firearms General Catalog & Component Parts No. 52 (revised)
Stevens 1911 Firearms General Catalog & Component Parts No. 53
Stevens 1912 Arms & Tool Co. Shotguns Catalog
Stevens c1913 No 11 Rifle - Pistol Catalog
Stevens c1914 Firearms # 54 General Catalog
Stevens 1918 Arms Company Gun Catalog
Stevens c1920 Firearms General # 55 Catalog
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2018 at 1:29am by BP »  

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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #40 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 7:50am
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BP wrote on Mar 26th, 2018 at 1:12am:
I have an original Stevens #53 catalog, and some pages have the purplish ink stamps over a particular item that reads "This Model Discontinued." It mentions a number of Championships that occurred in the year 1912 that were won with Stevens firearms. One page has a very small 9-01-12 tucked in a lower corner.
Perhaps my original #53 is a revised version of the original #53 catalog, that Cornell made a reprint of and shows with an issue date of 1911.


I've got two original 53s, one with & one without the ink stamps. On the one with the stamps, obviously the revised edition, someone (presumably whoever first received it) wrote 1912 in pencil on the cover.
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #41 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 7:56am
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 26th, 2018 at 12:54am:
I just looked at my Cornell 1903 catalog copy.  The covers are paper, not plastic.  Inside it says that it is catalog #50.  Never noticed it before, but there it is in black and white. 


But where does the 1903 date come from?

Well, I just answered my own question by going through page by page looking for a dated testimonial.  There were none, but on p. 42 is a dated list of Pope's scores, the last one being 1-1-03.
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2018 at 8:16am by Redsetter »  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #42 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 5:46pm
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Redsetter wrote on Mar 26th, 2018 at 7:56am:
uscra112 wrote on Mar 26th, 2018 at 12:54am:
I just looked at my Cornell 1903 catalog copy.  The covers are paper, not plastic.  Inside it says that it is catalog #50.  Never noticed it before, but there it is in black and white. 


But where does the 1903 date come from?

Well, I just answered my own question by going through page by page looking for a dated testimonial.  There were none, but on p. 42 is a dated list of Pope's scores, the last one being 1-1-03.

Looks like there's more than one version of the #50 catalog as well, since the page 42 in yours is different than the page 42 in mine.
  

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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #43 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 7:29pm
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BP wrote on Mar 26th, 2018 at 5:46pm:
Looks like there's more than one version of the #50 catalog as well, since the page 42 in yours is different than the page 42 in mine.


That was reported by my original (unknown) source:   "I wrote that date (1901),and also the note, "revised 1903," on the copy I have... Only thing I'm sure of is that the original source for those dates struck me as reliable, or I wouldn't have accepted them."

However, 1901 for the 1st ed. may be too early, because Cope gave the date as 1902. 

Clearly Stevens ended their previous practice of dating catalogs in favor of revising undated, numbered, catalogs--seems a sure recipe for confusion.



  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #44 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 8:05pm
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Redsetter wrote on Mar 26th, 2018 at 7:29pm:
BP wrote on Mar 26th, 2018 at 5:46pm:
Looks like there's more than one version of the #50 catalog as well, since the page 42 in yours is different than the page 42 in mine.


That was reported by my original (unknown) source:   "I wrote that date (1901),and also the note, "revised 1903," on the copy I have... Only thing I'm sure of is that the original source for those dates struck me as reliable, or I wouldn't have accepted them."

However, 1901 for the 1st ed. may be too early, because Cope gave the date as 1902. 

Clearly Stevens ended their previous practice of dating catalogs in favor of revising undated, numbered, catalogs--seems a sure recipe for confusion.




Gotta watch those "original (unknown) sources" closely.    Grin
  

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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #45 - Mar 26th, 2018 at 9:35pm
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BP wrote on Mar 26th, 2018 at 8:05pm:
Gotta watch those "original (unknown) sources" closely.    Grin


Of course!  But this particular one was no wild guess--it was very damned close!
  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #46 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 12:49pm
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Here's a nice write up of the various Stevens models starting with the 1889 ...
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #47 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 1:48pm
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It IS a pretty good writeup, I've read it a number of times.  It's factually good, also, but the writer seems to have missed that fact that 1894 Favorites had real serial numbers until they were well up in five digits. (I have one that's 8xxxx).   And that the "bow" style mainspring seems to have been continued at least that long.   Wisner also missed that the thickness of metal in the "bow" mainspring for a Favorite is much less than for a 44.   The two springs are otherwise identical, but putting a 44 mainspring into a Favorite results in a gun that takes two hands to cock.  I've had to grind his spring down to somewhat less than 1/4" wide to make it work.

As far as 44s are concerned, I have no quibbles except that I'm never seen a 44 with the "cantilever" mainspring which is screwed down at one end, like the later '94 Favorites.  My log doesn't include this feature, because it's unseen unless the buttstock is removed.   I'm also not following the Savage era very assiduously, so it may be true above the 70,000 s/n, (which I think is the wartime break), and I've just not laid hands one one. Sharpe wrote that the 417 subfamily has the coiled mainspring strut, like the 1915 Favorites. I can't confirm.

Wisner is particularly good with the extractors.  I have yet to get one that isn't spot-on dimensionally, which is no mean feat given all the variations.  I wonder who did the study?
« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2018 at 1:55pm by uscra112 »  
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Re: 1889 Stevens Favorite in .32 caliber
Reply #48 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 3:01pm
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
Wisner also missed that the thickness of metal in the "bow" mainspring for a Favorite is much less than for a 44.   The two springs are otherwise identical, but putting a 44 mainspring into a Favorite results in a gun that takes two hands to cock.


That I discovered when I ordered one!  And even if your he-man hand is so strong that you don't need two thumbs, what you very well may need before long is a new sear when the tip fractures from the stress of excessive spring pressure.
  
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