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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Winder Musket - do you know what one is? (Read 1580 times)
CW
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Re: Winder Musket - do you know what one is?
Reply #30 - May 11th, 2018 at 11:10pm
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Having read as much as I can find or afford on Winders, and my question was 'what is and is not a Winder Musket?; at this point I think that it might be easier to rule out what isn't a Winder.

In general, from December 1904 forward, Winchester single shot muskets chambered for any 22rf might be fairly called a Winder musket.

At this point, having read everything I can, I would be hard pressed to call out the exceptions. However, I am sure there are a small few.
Anyone care to check my thinking here? Friendly please!
( I now have a lot of data)
  
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CW
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Re: Winder Musket - do you know what one is?
Reply #31 - May 11th, 2018 at 11:23pm
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I should have added that 1904 is when Charlies Winder and Winchester began an official association to produce a standard training musket.
« Last Edit: May 12th, 2018 at 8:33am by CW »  
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waterman
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Re: Winder Musket - do you know what one is?
Reply #32 - May 12th, 2018 at 4:10am
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I would add that the sights must be a U.S. Krag rear sight (any model) in the 1st or 2nd Model (or D&T for same), or it must be a 3rd Model with 4 holes in the right side of the action (if lacking the Lyman sight).  Also must be either Short or Long Rifle, not WRF or Extra Long.

  
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CW
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Re: Winder Musket - do you know what one is?
Reply #33 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:50am
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Some of the earliest first variation Winder Muskets have forward mounted Hotchkiss barrel sights. The pictures show them to be mounted about 3-4 inches in front of the receiver ring.
"Also must be either Short or Long Rifle, not WRF or Extra Long."
Good call on that. Just one Winder was found marked 22 Long. All others being 22 Short  or  22 Long Rifle.
 
  
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Re: Winder Musket - do you know what one is?
Reply #34 - May 12th, 2018 at 9:37am
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If they have Hotchkiss sights, they are pre-Winders.  His first requirement was that the musket have Krag sights.  They were intended as National Guard training rifles.
  
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CW
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Re: Winder Musket - do you know what one is?
Reply #35 - May 12th, 2018 at 10:08am
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Thanks for pointing that out. The point you make is exactly why I am posting this thread in the first place.
Because "Winder" is a reference and not a model, there is a lot of subjective interpretation here. 
I understand your thinking and am happy to go along with it.

However.....

A few sources include these Hotchkiss sight rifles in the early transition and suggest this is what Winchester was providing to Winder and all as standard.This info is sourced from Campbell. 

You are right, Winder did not want the Hotchkiss, too crude for the task.

Shortly in to it, still early on, according to M.D.Waite, a Winchester factory sightless Winder rifle could be special ordered without the Hotchkiss, but drilled and taped for the Krag sight, and the buyer would have to provide the Krag rear sight.

There is more on this area of early developmental Winders written by Bert Hartman and I will try to post some of the later.  Gota go.
Thanks for posting. I am looking for this kind of trouble shooting. Keep it coming.
« Last Edit: May 12th, 2018 at 10:40am by CW »  
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