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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads (Read 5445 times)
Gunfunpow
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #30 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 9:37am
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Yellowhouse, those are some sexy rounds! Can they be thumb loaded? I have cerrosafe on order so I can eliminate any doubts in that area. Marlinguy, I take what you said about the paper patch to mean that the beginning of the paper wraps around the circumference of the bullet 2x and the end of the paper lands on the starting point of the paper patch? Just remembered that Venturino's book has a paper patch demo chapter! Gotta hit the books again..... Wink
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #31 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 10:52am
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Gunfunpow wrote on Jul 25th, 2018 at 9:37am:
Yellowhouse, those are some sexy rounds! Can they be thumb loaded? I have cerrosafe on order so I can eliminate any doubts in that area. Marlinguy, I take what you said about the paper patch to mean that the beginning of the paper wraps around the circumference of the bullet 2x and the end of the paper lands on the starting point of the paper patch? Just remembered that Venturino's book has a paper patch demo chapter! Gotta hit the books again..... Wink


Yes, and the ends are cut at an angle to match. I was surprised in my early attempts to paper patch bullets from the paper patch mold how quickly I was able to make decent looking patched bullets.
  

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Yellowhouse
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #32 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 10:35pm
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This book and other info gleaned from the Shilohrifleforums.com will be invaluable to you

The bullets are slip fit!
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Gunfunpow
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #33 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 5:08pm
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Yellow house, thank you for that link! That's just what I need, thanks again!
  
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coljimmy
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #34 - Aug 2nd, 2018 at 3:54pm
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On an earlier part of this thread, the 44-77 is actually a fairly early Sharps caliber.  AKA 44-70, 44-75.  My 1874 Sharps is marked caliber 44 on top of the barrel in front of the breech and 75 with a different font on the right flat just in front of the breech.  In the early Sharps sales literature, 44 meant 44-77.  Rock Island just sold 3 rollers marked 44 and 44 ctge.  I tried to low ball them, but they went lots higher than their estimate.

James
  
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ndnchf
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #35 - Sep 14th, 2020 at 8:08am
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I just bought an original .44-77 #1 Remington sporting rifle and have been researching the forum.  This is such a good thread, full of great information that I thought it better to resurrect it rather than start a new one and duplicate information. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion and answered my questions in another recent thread.

My rifle is an early one marked "44S" so I understand it could be either .44 -77 or .44-90.  Unfortunately, somewhere back in time the barrel was shortened to near 24".  I'll do a chamber cast and slug the bore when it arrives.  I'd like to use PP bullets since that is what it was made for.  I have a fair bit of PP experience with my Shiloh Sharps .40-70SBN, so this shouldn't be a lot different. 

I'm looking forward to bringing the old boy back to life.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #36 - Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:29am
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Rather than rebarrel your fine old Roller, you might contact John Taylor Machine and see if John can lengthen your existing barrel, and reline it. He's done numerous barrel restorations of this type, and it is the best way to go in my opinion, as it saves all the original markings.
I've had him do a couple for me, and I love having a brand new bore, but still have the original barrel. The first gun he lengthened for me was a Hepburn in .40-70, with double set triggers, that had been cut down to 22". It's now a 30" in the same caliber.

  

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ndnchf
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #37 - Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:44am
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:29am:
Rather than rebarrel your fine old Roller, you might contact John Taylor Machine and see if John can lengthen your existing barrel, and reline it. He's done numerous barrel restorations of this type, and it is the best way to go in my opinion, as it saves all the original markings.
I've had him do a couple for me, and I love having a brand new bore, but still have the original barrel. The first gun he lengthened for me was a Hepburn in .40-70, with double set triggers, that had been cut down to 22". It's now a 30" in the same caliber.



I'll keep that in mind.  John has done a number of jobs for me, including a #2 he has now waiting to be relined.  He does great work.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #38 - Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:55am
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That is one heavy barrel. Probably why it was cut down in the first place. You could have John turn the longer barrel to half-round to make it more manageable and still retain all the original markings and no one would know it did not come from the factory that way.
  

Glenn
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marlinguy
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #39 - Sep 15th, 2020 at 10:27am
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The Hepburn John did for me has a barrel that's slightly larger octagon than the frame width, so very heavy! John said he used a piece of large round stock and milled it to octagon to get enough metal to fit the heavy barrel. Then welded it to my barrel and lined the length to the original .40-70SS, but with chamber cut to accept the shortened .405 Win. brass I use.
No way to tell it's been lengthened, or lined, except for a peek at the chamber end. I've had fun showing friends the barrel and asking them to see if they can tell me how much length was added to restore it. So far nobody has pointed to the correct spot.
  

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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #40 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 8:51pm
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My .44-77 sporting rifle arrived today. I'm very pleased with it. The bore is bright and shiney with only minor pitting. I doubt it has been apart for a good cleaning in 100 years. The action was full of crud. So I took it completely down for a gentle, but thorough cleaning, lubrication and inspection. Everything looks good, no big issues.

I slugged the bore. The grooves are .4495" at the muzzle, .4505" at the breech. Tomorrow I'll try to measure the lands.

I got 40 pieces of new 43 Spanish thick rim brass and sized one in a 43 Spanish sizer. Then expanded the neck to .446". It chambered nicely. I have 43 Mauser dies coming which should work fine.

I'd like to shoot paper patch bullets. I think they will shoot well in this bore. Smiley
  
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MrTipUp
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #41 - Sep 23rd, 2020 at 7:17am
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As is, the rifle is a worthy saddle or brush gun.  But a .44S, whichever it is, in my book cries out for longer than a 24" barrel, even though that means a reline.  Regardless, that's one nice rifle!

Bill Lawrence
  
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ndnchf
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #42 - Sep 23rd, 2020 at 1:40pm
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Thanks.

The short 23.5" barrel brings up another question I've been mulling over - what powder to use?  Can 2F or 1.5 Swiss be completely burned in this short length or will it be blowing a lot out the muzzle?  Would 3F be a better choice? or 2F with a small duplex charge of RL 7 or 4227?
  
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John Boy
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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #43 - Sep 23rd, 2020 at 4:40pm
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You skipped over the recommended powder ... 77grs of Fg with a 365gr bullet at 1460 FPS
  

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Re: 44-77 Original Rolling Block black powder loads
Reply #44 - Sep 23rd, 2020 at 5:12pm
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John, did you skip over the 23.5 inch barrel? Ndnchf, 2F duplexed might be the best ticket for a clean burn.
  
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