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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 100 series Model 44's receiver markings? (Read 4354 times)
Dellet
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #15 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 4:26pm
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My fault on the serial number 223X, four digit number I can't remember the last digit, that was the reason for the ?

The roll mark is 1894 with 25-21 marked on the flat below the maker and patent stamp. Serial number is on the underside of the barrel in front of the forearm. I would consider the barrel correctly marked as it matches everything else I have of that era.

The questions come up for the barrel markings under the forearm and front of receiver where there is none.

The only marking on the receiver is on the tang, serial number. It is directly under the lever, more forward infront of where the lever contacts the tang, not back by the spring set screw hole. You have to drop the lever to see it.

The barrel markings under the forearm include the presumed model number 107, and a 22. I don't think it is a #22 barrel weight as I can lift it, unless they changed the numbering system. Wink

Sorry for the confusion.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #16 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 4:38pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Jul 31st, 2018 at 4:09pm:
And just to keep us all on our toes, including Redsetter, the very big barrel and the rattling buttstock are of oodmoff's rifle.


Of course--it was to him that I addressed my comment.
  
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oodmoff
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #17 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 5:26pm
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found two more photos....hopefully answers the OPs orginal question.  No model marking just s/n.   
also showed the caliber marking under the barrel (not sure if they knew which direction they were headed either)....as mine is not marked on the flat.  

btw bill is miss clavel a nurse or a nun...?
« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2018 at 5:56pm by oodmoff »  
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Redsetter
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #18 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 7:06pm
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oodmoff wrote on Jul 31st, 2018 at 5:26pm:
found two more photos....hopefully answers the OPs orginal question.  No model marking just s/n.   


Further evidence, evidently, of inconsistency in placement of markings--Dellet just said above there were NO markings on the front of his rcvr. 
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #19 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 9:56pm
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Oodmoff, in the fine live-action movie, Miss Clavel is portrayed as a nun, complete with cross, which the real Miss Clavel, Miss Clara Clavel, never wears.  In short, our Miss Clavel is a nurse by training and a teacher by vocation, in the "old house in Paris all covered with vines."  As she would have been in Britain back then, were she nursing professionally, she would likely have been termed a "nursing sister" and addressed as "Sister Clavel".  But as a teacher, she's just plain "Miss".

So why the nun-like outfit?  Probably it's as nothing more than a proudly Catholic country's homage to the women who among their historic virtues was that of selflessly serving as nurses when needed.

Plus who's going to sass someone who looks like a nun?

Bill Lawrence
  
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oodmoff
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #20 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 10:11pm
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I knew we could get a question successfully answered in this thread...well played...well played.
  
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Dellet
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #21 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 10:38pm
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Butt plate is a Swiss #2

Need to work on some photo sizes, this is the one in question and will resize it soon.
« Last Edit: Aug 1st, 2018 at 11:41am by Dellet »  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #22 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 10:51pm
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I'm sorry, oodmoff, that we've only by counter-example sort-of answered your original question (and I stress "sort-of").  But Dellet's rifle, being earlier than yours (serial number 223x vs. 29xx) has thrown us for something of a loop with it's seemingly very unlikely "original" .25-21 chambering.

Now among us Old Boys and especially when it comes to Stevens material, loop-throwing and tangent-chasing seem to happen often, perhaps too often.

So I'm taking a feeble stab at getting back on track.

By any stretch of the imagination, assuming the correctness of that .25-21 chambering, could the "22" be a twist rate?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Dellet
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #23 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 11:06pm
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Twist rate will be very close to 1/14.

About 1.6 turns of the cleaning rod in 26” barrel.

I have seen photos of other barrels marked similar, unexplained number. But never an explanation.
  
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oodmoff
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #24 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 11:24pm
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Bill please understand my comment was in jest, I appreciate all the knowledge put forth thus far, including the nurse/nun info.

Certainly how Dellets rifle came to be may never be known.  The odds of it being a factory re-barrel are probably higher than as it being a "later" parts on hand assembly, but that probably isn't completely out of the realm of possibility.  I have seen rifles roll stamped "Rebored by J Stevens" but never have seen anything indicated that it was "re-barreled" by Stevens.  Perhaps someone else has.... Given how accommodating Stevens was to other makers and custom orders and the odds or ringing a barrel in the day...its odd they wouldn't make a stamp to say such, thus its more likely in my opinion that they may have just rebarreled and matched the serial number.  But again I am speculating.   I would suspect a twist rate more along 1 in 12 or 14...  22 seems extreme.   Could be a barrel worker number...

btw thanks for the photos
  
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frnkeore
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #25 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 2:11am
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The standard Stevens twist rate is 13 for 25 caliber.

Frank
  

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Bill Lawrence
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #26 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 5:27am
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Oodmoff, I knew you were jesting; so was I, somewhat.  But the apparent purposeful destruction of the Stevens factory records often leaves us with severe cases of frustration characterized by overdoses of speculation over even the seemingly simplest questions.

In a slightly earlier conversation concerning a Ballard with both Pope and Stevens stamps, the group more or less came to the opinion that Stevens had "re-bored and re-rifled by" and "re-barreled by" but no "barreled by" stamps to identify work done on guns other than their own.

But when it came to rerifling, rechambering, replacing, or adding barrels to one of their own guns, as you note, Stevens apparently left no tracks behind on the guns themselves.

Damn the destruction of those factory records!

Bill Lawrence
« Last Edit: Aug 1st, 2018 at 5:38am by Bill Lawrence »  
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Dellet
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #27 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 11:43am
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frnkeore wrote on Aug 1st, 2018 at 2:11am:
The standard Stevens twist rate is 13 for 25 caliber.

Frank

I did confirm it as 1/13, thanks
  
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uscra112
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #28 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 9:15pm
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I have 2023 and 2459 in my collection.  Neither one has any markings at all on the receiver, other than the s/n on the tang.

S/n 2023 has the one line mark on the barrel, with 1886 patent date.  It has no caliber mark, no barrel weight mark, and the s/n is stamped in a much smaller typeface than the receiver.  The original chambering appears to have been .22 Harwood Hornet, so I want to think that this barrel was fitted and chambered by Harwood himself, but of course this is only a guess. 

S/n 2459 has the two-line barrel rollstamp with the APR 17 94 patent date, and s/n from the receiver is repeated on the barrel in the same script style.   Barrel is chambered .32 Ideal and is so marked.  No weight number.

I have logged no fewer than 15 rifles between 2000 and 3000, and while for several specimens I was unable to get the barrel marking at all, s/n 2144 and above all have the two-line APR 17 94 mark.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 100 series Model 44's receiver markings?
Reply #29 - Aug 1st, 2018 at 10:22pm
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uscra112 wrote on Aug 1st, 2018 at 9:15pm:
S/n 2023 has the one line mark on the barrel, with 1886 patent date.


Did you mean 1885?

By the way, I know that Edward Elder held the 1894 pat., but what about the '85 pat.? 

  
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