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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Few Old Photos (Read 5612 times)
frnkeore
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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #105 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 7:08pm
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I can't say, that's why I put a ?.

I was going by the shape of the bolt handle (straight and down swept) and the forearm band.

The area ahead of the receiver ring, looks strange. It looks like it could be a short Krag ring with something added?

Maybe a bolt gun of his own design?

Frank
  

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Redsetter
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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #106 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 7:30pm
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frnkeore wrote on Nov 7th, 2018 at 7:08pm:
Maybe a bolt gun of his own design?


Well, he did that too!  His famous "Hamburg rifle," of which a handful were built.  Odd looking action, with open bridge something like a Mannlicher.  However, only photo of one I've seen doesn't much resemble gun in photo.
  
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Hayface
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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #107 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:57pm
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Gents,

I believe those rifles held by Neidner and Gibbons may be Springfield 1903's converted to 22 rimfire, which is something that Neidner was known for doing according to Brophy.  It is also possible that one or both are based on the Model 1922.  Note what appears to be the loaded round clearance notch at the right front of the ejection ports.  The unidentified gizmo ahead of the receiver may be a rear sight cover of some kind, although it doesn't look like those made by O'Hare.  The scope mounts are consistent with Winchester A5 locations for the '03.

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« Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2018 at 4:06pm by Hayface »  
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J Louis
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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #108 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 4:31pm
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The first two had two locking lugs the other three had multiple locking lugs. An unfinished Mann-Niedner action with gauges is pictured.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #109 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 6:25pm
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The bolt handle looks to far back in the Gibbons/Niedner picture for it to be the one JL pictures.

Actually the Gibbons/Niedner bolt, looks very long, like about 8" maybe.

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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #110 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 6:39pm
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frnkeore wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Actually the Gibbons/Niedner bolt, looks very long, like about 8" maybe.


Looks that way to me, too, but think maybe it's some kind of photographic distortion...unless they're chambered for .50 Browning.
  
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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #111 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 8:34pm
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This is from Mike Petrov's notes that went with the Niedner photo;
     
Published 2002
The Niedner-Springfield 1903 .22LR by Michael Petrov

In 1914 when Adolph O. Niedner was located in Malden, Massachusetts he and his friend Orris E. Gerrish came up with the idea of a .22 caliber Springfield rifle. There were many shooters who shot the 1903 Springfield .30-06 Service rifle and would have liked to shoot in the off season indoors with a rifle of the same type, the only difference being the caliber. This was certainly not a new idea. The Springfield Armory introduced the "Hoffer-Thompson"¯ in 1907 and made them until 1918. This was a 1903 Springfield with a caliber .22 barrel that used steel holders which looked like a 30-06 cartridge that incorporated a chamber and firing pin for the .22 short cartridge.

Niedner's conversion consisted of a trough held in place by four screws, two screws through the left side of the receiver and two into the right raceway. The bolt is a two-piece bolt that has a non-rotating front section with the original safety lug now acting as the locking lug. A stud on the side of the bolt that stops against the magazine cutoff controls the length of bolt travel. With the cutoff in the middle position the bolt can be removed just as in the normal 1903 Springfield. The barrels for these conversions were made by Niedner and have a Niedner chamber with a fourteen-inch twist. The cocking head is removed from the bolt and the sear has several holes drilled in it so as to lighten the striker and speed up lock time. All that I have data on are chambered for the .22 long-rifle cartridge.
These rifles were never meant for the military, although when one of them does come up for sale they are sometimes advertised this way. Most went to members of the Boston Rifle and Revolver Club. I am not sure how many of these conversions were made. I have catalogued ten and have reference to maybe four more and would guess that no more than twenty of these conversions were made.
Most that I have information on are single shots but Niedner did make at least two with a five-shot magazine. This is a slick operating rifle. You just drop the cartridge in the trough, close the bolt and fire. Extraction and ejection are flawless.
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #112 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 8:40pm
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cont.;

Many of the rifles still have the Niedner barrel. It will be marked on the bottom of the barrel with the Niedner barrel number and the date. The two rifles pictures are marked 245 12-1916 and 251 5-1917. The top of the barrel as well as the tops of the bolts and right sides of the¯ trough are marked in two lines with his standard Malden marking.

A. O. NIEDNER
MALDEN, MASS.

These rifles were originally fitted with the Mann-Niedner tapered dovetail bases and scopes with Mann-Niedner mounts. Most of these mounts have been changed to modern mounts (Unertl & Fecker), however the last rifle that I know of that sold at auction last year still had a Mann-Niedner mounted scope on it.

For eighty-five year old rifles, they still do the job they were made for. As with any .22 rimfire target rifle you have to take the time to find out what kind of ammunition it likes, so I tried several different brands. All my testing was outdoors, bench rest at 50 yards with a scope. The more expensive ammo made by Eley and RWS performed poorly while CCI Green-tag and of all things Winchester T-22 did about as good as I could have hoped for.

I have never seen one of these modified Springfields that was made at the Niedner Rifle Corporation in Dowagiac, Michigan. With the introduction of the Springfield model 1922 in caliber .22 LR there was little need for the more expensive custom conversion. It is interesting that Niedner charged $35 in 1916 and $40 in 1918 for the conversion. In an ad in Arms and the Man for November 1, 1920 there is a used one for sale for $60 and in June 1, 1920 there is one with a scope for $150. That's a lot of money for a .22 target rifle in 1920.

The un-dated picture showing the shooters of the Boston Rifle and Revolver Club show Gibbons, Gerrish and Niedner using the Niedner-Springfields. The gentleman to Niedner's right-rear is Souther the Boston scope maker. Many other members pictured were nationally known pistols shooters. The scope on Mr. Niedner's rifle is a custom one made for him by John W. Sidle of Philadelphia.

Over the years a few of these rifles have been converted into sporters and the Niedner barrels have been replaced. Mr. Niedner replaced the barrel on his rifle when he was at Dowagiac and had it restocked by Tom Shelhamer.

  
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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #113 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 11:00pm
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Here are a couple that I have posted before but since this thread came back up I will repost

The CC Johnson photo is a copy probably from the internet??

The others are mine
  

Thanks, Don

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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #114 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 11:01pm
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Looks like more than one post
  

Thanks, Don

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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #115 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 11:02pm
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Ad CC Johnson shop
  

Thanks, Don

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #116 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 9:49am
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Every time I see that picture of CC Johnson's shop I'm impressed! He must have had the cleanest gun shop ever! Or he did a very thorough cleaning prior to the picture being taken! Amazing!
  

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Re: A Few Old Photos
Reply #117 - yesterday at 1:56pm
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Lillian Smith holding a Ballard;
  
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