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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable (Read 4148 times)
bnice
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #15 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 3:13pm
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I would suggest if you opt for the 32-40 to ask about the twist rate from CPA, I believe they use a 1 in 15, others can confirm this. I would prefer faster so if down the road you want to use the heavier bullets many are using it will be capable. Also on the 25's something 1-10 or faster. JMO
  
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JLouis
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #16 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 5:35pm
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SBBuyer that is a picture taken at my home range I believe while Barry was here living with myself and family and the fence is not hot. The electrical box you see in the picture was used to power the 100 yard moving backers we once used for the CBA Group matches of which are now long gone.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #17 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 6:09pm
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Interesting that even a 71 grain spitzer 22 only has a BC of less than 200.
  
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SmallBoreBuyer
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #18 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 11:16pm
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oneatatime wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 6:09pm:
Interesting that even a 71 grain spitzer 22 only has a BC of less than 200.

I wonder if that is a G7 BC.
  
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OLD TUCK
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #19 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 11:36pm
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smallbore, if you think you might wish to shoot with Black Powder. I strongly suggest the 32-40. This is very good with many grades of Smokeless. And Black. Also the 15" twist is a good choice. Winchester used a 16" twist but when shot with any thing approaching 200 Grs the bullet would show tipping at 200 yds.
As soon as the caliber goes below .32, the Black Powder fowling becomes and issue. Many will be wiping between every shot with Black. As to Bullets a Pope style Tapered bullet works very well Breech Seated with either Smokeless or Black Powder. As far as Recoil goes. The 32-40 is a joy to shoot and can be considered as accurate as just about any other calibers
but not as fussy. HTH, just my opinion. FITZ. OLD TUCK Smiley
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #20 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 1:50am
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SmallBoreBuyer wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 11:16pm:
oneatatime wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 6:09pm:
Interesting that even a 71 grain spitzer 22 only has a BC of less than 200.

I wonder if that is a G7 BC.

If you'll look in the upper right corner of the report, it specifies G1.

Frank
  

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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #21 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 11:07am
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frnkeore wrote on Oct 13th, 2018 at 1:50am:
SmallBoreBuyer wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 11:16pm:
oneatatime wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 6:09pm:
Interesting that even a 71 grain spitzer 22 only has a BC of less than 200.

I wonder if that is a G7 BC.

If you'll look in the upper right corner of the report, it specifies G1.

Frank

Good eye!

Surprisingly low BC, as was said.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #22 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 4:55pm
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.32 RKS

14:1 twist 210 grain Spitzer
or
11.5 twist 235 grain Spitzer (heavier bullet less sensitive to wind)


The .32 RKS is a 357 Maximum case trimmed to 1.470" and tapered with a .223 FL sizing die after the cases are annealed.


Basically the .32 RKS is a rimmed .223 case that is cut off at the shoulder.

Shooting pistol loads in the .32 RKS rifle makes the recoil like shooting a rimfire; and you get great accuracy.

The larger case capacity results in less sensitivity to powder variations like the smaller .32 Miller.

If you do not want to make a modern accurate breech seating cartridge then use the traditional .32-40.
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2018 at 7:13pm by Schuetzendave »  
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frnkeore
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #23 - Oct 13th, 2018 at 7:06pm
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BTW, the BC for the two bullets that Dave references is (G1) .421 & .450.

Much better than any of the 25 cal and under bullets.

Frank
  

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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #24 - Oct 16th, 2018 at 9:15am
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If i knew then what I know now I would have asked Paul to chamber my 32 in 32 Ideal. There is nothing wrong with 32-40 but the older I get the more I like straight cases. it allows you to put a wad anywhere along the length of the case to restrict the powder. I place my wad .100" of the powder. You can't do that with a 32.40 case because the taper of the case. There is plenty of bolder room for any powder you want to use. The one drawback is they are no longer commercially made you either have to find some old cases or have some cases made. The good news is that 20 cases will last you a lifetime.

40 Rod
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #25 - Oct 16th, 2018 at 10:01am
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When breech seating it is possible to put a wad at the mouth of the case; so it is still possible to use tapered cases or bottle necked cases.

I also prefer straight walled cases for fixed case black powder shooting.

Many people who have tried some straight walled cases with smokeless powder have had their cases stick in the chamber.

The .32 RKS has a slight taper and prevents sticking when you use a little heavier smokeless powder load.

It is interesting that the vast majority recommend a .32 caliber for the Schuetzen game.

This caliber provides a heavy enough bullet to be less susceptible to the wind but can be shot at a velocity where recoil is more easily managed which leads to more accurate shooting.

Most .32 calibers were a 15:1 twist but advanced to 1 14:1 twist in the 1990s to use heavier bullets.

This trend continued around 2000 to using 11.5:1 twists to use even heavier bullets which are less susceptible to the wind.

This is taking advantage of Kinetic Energy which is half the energy of motion or 1/2 (mass (weight) xvelocitysquared).

But increasing velocity makes your bullet more susceptible to wind drift until you exceed 1,700 fps.

So it is better to increase your bullet weight to increase your Kinetic Energy (energy of motion) rather than the velocity when shooting plain base cast bullets..
« Last Edit: Oct 17th, 2018 at 5:37am by Schuetzendave »  
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JLouis
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #26 - Oct 16th, 2018 at 11:35am
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If giving some thought to a 32 the best shooting rifle I have owned to date was a Bresien Stevens 52 chambered in 33-47. Barrel a 15 twist, bullet a 234gr. David Mos spitzer and it is simply the 32-40 case blown out to 33. It is less load finicky than the 32-40 and easier to get to shot consistently and only requires 5 tenths of a grain more powder so recoil is close to the same. Powder charge used for 32-40 14.2 grains and powder charge used for the 33-47 14.7 grains both providing a 1474 average velocity and something else to possibly consider and also highly recommend on my own behalf to be one's first extremely competitive breech seating competition rifle. If that is what one is actually looking for but if looking for something just as accurate a bit less wind friendly and just as competitive my 28-35 is and has served me very well and it is quite a bit more enjoyable to shoot recoil wise and its simply the 25-35 necked up to 28 with cases easy to come currently from Hornady. Barrel is a 12 twist Douglas, bullet 154grs. and powder charge 12.3 grains and I built this rifle around the FBW's Model J action and in the traditional schuetzen style and the bullet holes at 200yds. are very easy to see and similar to the 32's. I have been shooting this rifle in competition since I built it now going on close to five years now but have never shot it over the chrony. I have used over 13grs. of powder and I think it safe to say 1600fps. plus is easily achieved without any pressure signs and I have never gotten any leading or even small flakes so just something else to possibly think about. Might add we now have nine rifles chambered for the 28-35 in our group some using it for their dedicated offhand rilfe and for myself it is soley used for benchrest and some of the others have used it for both or just bench same as myself.

JLouis
« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2018 at 11:56am by JLouis »  
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #27 - Oct 17th, 2018 at 2:51pm
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Update:

I spoke with Barry Darr, as suggested by JLouis, regarding the 22 Hornet.  When I told him I was a newbie, Barry recommended going for a 25 caliber cartridge, as a less finicky option, and talking to Jerry Hartwig. 

I got in touch with Jerry and we spoke at length about the primary caliber options 25-20 WCF and 25 Hornet, rifles, other components, etc.  Due to brass availability in Canada, where PRVI Hornet seems easier to get than Winchester 32-20 brass, the 25 Hornet was the winner. 

I will start another thread asking for more specific input on the 25 Hornet.

I want to thank everyone for their input on this thread and particularly Barry and Jerry, for their amazing warmth and generosity. 
  
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Re: Which Cartridge? Low recoil, breech seatable
Reply #28 - Oct 17th, 2018 at 3:30pm
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Congratulations on a wise choice and you did indeed hook up with two of the best to help you out with that choice.
  
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