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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NYS Rolling Block Project (Read 7394 times)
Schuetzendave
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NYS Rolling Block Project
Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:15am
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Picked up a 1872 .50-70 New York State Militia Rolling Block at the gunshow this weekend.

Cleaned her up and she is ready to send in for color case hardening by a gunsmith in Quebec.

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The NYS Rolling Block has a different block with a circular extractor plus the safety mechanism: requiring you recock the hammer to fire after loading.

To make a .45-70 I will have to modify a .50-70 or 43 Spanish extractor since  they only came in these two calibers.

I will be ordering a RKS chrome moly octagon 30 inch gain twist .45-70 barrel.

Will install MVA tang sight and blocks for a 28 inch MVA scope.

Not sure if the Hammer is too high to use a scope unless I have high scope blocks.
But then high blocks will interfere with using the tang sight.
May only install a tang sight.
« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:36am by Schuetzendave »  
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marlinguy
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #1 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:40am
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I usually reshape the hammers to get them shorter, and more of a Sporting Rifle shape. Then checker the spur again. I also cut the block spur off and have it tig welded back on vertically. Then I reshape the spur to a concave back, and rounded front. Checker them again to retain a nice grip.
This is the last one I did. It's out for color case and bluing now.

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oneatatime
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #2 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 12:37pm
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What was wrong with the 50-70 barrel?
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #3 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 2:35pm
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MarlinGuy that looks like a good alternative so I can better utilize both a tang and scope on the rifle.

Do you need to anneal the metal to soften it for easier processing and then have to reharden after tig welding etc.?

I was considering putting flats on the receiver like you have; but I was worried about reducing the strength.

The .50-70 barrel went somewhere else years ago.
I was only able to purchase the receiver and rear stock.
Presently restoring the stock since other Rolling Block Stocks are not supposed to fit the larger NYS Rolling Block.

Was considering rebuilding as a .50-70 but it is too difficult to get those cases up here in Canada.
  
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Oldman1950
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #4 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 4:56pm
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I was wondering what you used to clean-up the action??
Emery paper--wire wheel---green pad ???
A. J. Palik
  
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marlinguy
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #5 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:37pm
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Dave, the action in the picture is a BP action, and it will be a .22 caliber, so not a strength issue. I use smokeless actions for octagon top, or leave the BP actions round top.
I have a BP round top at Al Springer's now getting a .40-50SS barrel, and then blued and color cased.

I do not have the receivers annealed first, but my welder guy welds them with mild steel filler. They shape without any trouble even when not annealed. Casehardening is a surface treatment, so once it's broken through there's no issue.

I also reshape the trigger guards to sporting style. I have the sling holes welded up too. And I thin out the tangs to sporter style, and if I want a pistol grip I've been buying leftover Remington lower tangs from Numrich Gun Parts for $45.
« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:42pm by marlinguy »  

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marlinguy
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #6 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 5:40pm
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Oldman1950 wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 4:56pm:
I was wondering what you used to clean-up the action??
Emery paper--wire wheel---green pad ???
A. J. Palik


Never a wire wheel! A green pad is OK to get gunk or dirt off, but not used after that.
I polish with emery cloth on a block of wood. Flat sides I put a sheet of paper on a smooth steel surface, and work the action back and forth on the emery paper until it's shiny smooth. Might need coarse to start if there's pits, but I never go past maybe 320-360 grit for final polish.
Curved surfaces just use my hands and emery paper to clean up.
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #7 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 7:18pm
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The flat sides of my NYS RB were laid flat on a 150 sanding wheel to eliminate the rust pits.

Then everything was hand sanded with 320, 400, 600 and 1000 emery paper.

Then polished with felt wheel and green polish compound.

I have had .45-70, .40-65, .38-55, .38-50 Rem. Hepburn, and .40-60 Maynard.

Maybe I should try something different; but still be an antique black powder cartridge.

Maybe a .40-70 Straight Sharps?
What are other possible calibers that you can still find brass for and will not jar the bone spurs in my neck?
« Last Edit: Oct 26th, 2018 at 12:19am by Schuetzendave »  
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ww
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #8 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 9:16am
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Star-line makes 50-70 and 50-110. I bought mine from Midway.  40-70 necked can be made from 45-90 with just a trim to 2.25 and sized. I lucked out and bought my 40-70ss brass while Jamison was still in business and it looks like Hornaday no longer lists 405win. Brass may be a problem.
I built one last year in 40-82win that I'm happy with,  45-90 brass and size and trim. This would be my choice as dies were inexpensive and parent brass is readily available.
Like Vall I use smokeless receivers for my creations. With the 7X57mm rated at  57,000 CIP I don't think I'll run into dangerous pressure problems. It may have been overkill for a 25-20 but made a nice rifle .
WW
  
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marlinguy
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #9 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 11:08am
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Dave, I'd seriously consider the .40-50SS for it. I have one original in this caliber, and building another right now.
The cases are easily made from cheap .303 British, and it's very similar to a .38-55, except slightly larger bore and heavier bullet. I use a RCBS CSA-350 in mine, and it's good out to extremely long ranges. It also works extremely well with smokeless powders, or BP.
  

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Chuckster
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #10 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 11:40am
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Dave, Beautiful polish job. Admire your skill with the felt wheel.
Chuck
  
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frnkeore
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #11 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 1:13pm
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ww wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 9:16am:
Like Vall I use smokeless receivers for my creations. With the 7X57mm rated at  57,000 CIP I don't think I'll run into dangerous pressure problems. It may have been overkill for a 25-20 but made a nice rifle .
WW

I hate to burst smokeless RB bubbles but, the smokeless and BP, RB's are made of steel that is approximately the same as mild steel.

Two members of this forum submitted one 1902 and one 1867 receiver pieces to another forum member and through his company, tested the components of the two metals. The main differences was the trace components.

The major difference between the BP & smokeless actions, is the diameter of the barrel threads.

Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #12 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 1:16pm
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frnkeore wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 1:13pm:
ww wrote on Oct 26th, 2018 at 9:16am:
Like Vall I use smokeless receivers for my creations. With the 7X57mm rated at  57,000 CIP I don't think I'll run into dangerous pressure problems. It may have been overkill for a 25-20 but made a nice rifle .
WW

I hate to burst smokeless RB bubbles but, the smokeless and BP, RB's are made of steel that is approximately the same as mild steel.

Two members of this forum submitted one 1902 and one 1867 receiver pieces to another forum member and through his company, tested the components of the two metals. The main differences was the trace components.

The major difference between the BP & smokeless actions, is the diameter of the barrel threads.

Frank


It's not just the diameter of the barrel threads Frank. It's the diameter of the receiver rings too. And that much thicker receiver ring makes the smokeless a stronger action to build with.
  

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ww
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #13 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 4:20pm
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The breachblock and hammer were of a stronger grade  of steel  also smaller firingpin hole. WW,
  
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frnkeore
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Re: NYS Rolling Block Project
Reply #14 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 5:03pm
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WW, do you have any proof that the BB, hammer or pins are made of different steel than the BP parts?

It had been stated for MANY years that the smokeless receivers where made of a Nickel steel alloy, that is what inspired the testing that we did and that was proved to be in error!

Regarding the additional diameter of the smokeless actions, the barrel shank is also larger. My 1867 has a wall thickness of .110 and my 1897 action is .127, only .017 thicker. If you mill it octagon, that makes it .078 thick.

The barrel, itself will hold more pressure with it's .040 thicker wall but, the frame is, very little stronger and  less strong if, you make it octagon.

The real weak area of a RB is under the barrel thread, I've seen CCH receivers come apart in that area because it's thin enough to through harden and broke like glass.

Frank
  

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