Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Black Powder Accuracy (Read 7091 times)
.22-5-40
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 708
Joined: Feb 13th, 2010
Black Powder Accuracy
Nov 5th, 2018 at 8:10pm
Print Post  
Has anyone had any success equaling or even bettering best smokeless powder accuracy breech-seating bullets with black powder..either straight or duplex loadings? I know the old timers weighed charges, primers, various alloys, Smileylubes, wads, etc.  Just wondering if someone has ever achieved this?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
beltfed
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1140
Location: Central Wi
Joined: Dec 20th, 2007
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #1 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 8:22pm
Print Post  
How about this?
40-65 HiWall,
straight black
371 gr DDEPP bullet
100 yards.
Also a 99-3x /100 at 800 yards with
369 gr Elliptical Minigroove bullet
beltfed/arnie
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6308
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #2 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 8:51pm
Print Post  
Not sure.  My 45-2.6 would regularly  make 2.25" 10 shot groups at 200 yards with straight BP.  I never shot smokeless in it, but I can't imagine it doing much better considering the recoil.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff_Schultz
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1005
Location: Ransomville, NY
Joined: Apr 25th, 2004
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #3 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 9:16pm
Print Post  
  It is yet to be done, and pretty unlikely that it ever will be.
  

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo

“Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.”

― Anonymous Greek Proverb
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6308
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #4 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 9:30pm
Print Post  
I think it might be possible in the .45s, but I doubt it ever will be in the .40 and below.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
svartkruttgris#369
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2954
Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden
Joined: Oct 28th, 2014
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #5 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 9:54pm
Print Post  
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Nov 5th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
I think it might be possible in the .45s, but I doubt it ever will be in the .40 and below.


From my own rather limited experience and watching others, I would not be surprised if a really good 40-50 did it with somewhat reduced powder loads and 330-400 gr bullets. Much less recoil and powder fouling.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RSW
Oldtimer
*****
Online



Posts: 787
Location: Arizona
Joined: Sep 8th, 2006
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #6 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 10:01pm
Print Post  
Here is one of my better BP groups. The group measures slightly greater than 2 inches, which is an inch larger than my best 250 shot with smokeless.
Rifle: Ballard (Cody) 32-40, RKS SS barrel, gain twist 1:20 to 1:11.5
Target: 200 Yard BR, 10-shots, breech seated 1/16 ahead of case mouth.
Load: Swiss 1.5 (volume measure, case full), 24 inch drop tube, Starline brass FL sized/trimmed to 32-40, Fed 150M primer, primer pocket paper wad, .025 card over powder wad, .09 dry felt spacer wad at bullet base.
Barrel wiped full length between shots, one damp patch, one dry.
« Last Edit: Nov 6th, 2018 at 1:27pm by RSW »  

Randy W
ASSRA 10211  -  ISSA 125
Saying guns kill people, makes about a much sense as saying, a pencil creates my artwork.
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 228
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #7 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 11:51pm
Print Post  
Not breech seated, but this is an example of how my 40-90 bn shoots with black and paper patch bullets at 600, and it's shot some small groups at 1000. 94 grain of OE 1f in Starline 45 2.6 cases reformed, baco .415396 money bullet cast from 16-1 and wrapped in Seth Cole 55w. For reference the bullseye is 24 inches diameter
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1736
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #8 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 11:52pm
Print Post  
I spent a fair bit of time trying to do it in .32-40 and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't likely to happen.  I have a Ruger #1 in .32-40 that has shot minute of angle ten shot groups at 200m with BP ( not consistently though ), but that is not competitive with smokeless.   My newest CPA in .32-40 beats it easily as it is more consistent.

In .38-55 and .38-50 RH I've never tried smokeless, but results with black powder are certainly better than the little .32-40.   If any of my rifles could shoot a 250 with black powder, these would be the ones, but the trouble is it's very easy to throw a shot.  I have a nice little target here from my first CPA .38-55 shooting black powder at 200m.  Nine of the twelve shots are well under a minute of angle, but the other three were pretty big flyers.  Still very impressive for a black powder rifle.

I think that the tiny .32-40 bullets are extremely susceptible to very small amounts of fouling left in the bore.  I wipe very carefully between shots with the .32-40 and still in a 10 shot string I'll often get a flyer or two that seem to be caused by bore condition.   The larger diameter bullets just seem to be less affected.   

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1736
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #9 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 11:56pm
Print Post  
I should add that I made my post assuming benchrest shooting in schuetzen style rifles.

If the game is long range NRA style target rifle in larger cartridges like my .45's, I'd pick black powder all day long, even if smokeless was allowed  Smiley.

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6308
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #10 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 12:11am
Print Post  
The only times I had measured groups beyond 200 for my .45-2.6 were one at 300 which was about 3.375" and 500 was just under 6 inches.  There was no wind and no mirage  Grin  Straight BP shooting Goex Cartridge in those days.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1736
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #11 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 10:42am
Print Post  
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Nov 6th, 2018 at 12:11am:
The only times I had measured groups beyond 200 for my .45-2.6 were one at 300 which was about 3.375" and 500 was just under 6 inches.  There was no wind and no mirage  Grin  Straight BP shooting Goex Cartridge in those days.


That's very good accuracy.   I shoot a fair bit at 300 on paper ( from prone ) and generally don't see too many groups that small.

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6308
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #12 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 2:00am
Print Post  
gunlaker wrote on Nov 6th, 2018 at 10:42am:
Schuetzenmiester wrote on Nov 6th, 2018 at 12:11am:
The only times I had measured groups beyond 200 for my .45-2.6 were one at 300 which was about 3.375" and 500 was just under 6 inches.  There was no wind and no mirage  Grin  Straight BP shooting Goex Cartridge in those days.


That's very good accuracy.   I shoot a fair bit at 300 on paper ( from prone ) and generally don't see too many groups that small.

Chris.

I was testing my ammo.  I had a very solid rest set up on a very good day.  Like I pointed out ~ no wind and no mirage.

  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Cbashooter
Full Member
***
Online



Posts: 112
Joined: Mar 31st, 2018
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #13 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 4:13am
Print Post  
I was there when Tommy Mason shot a 10 shot .400 "l group at 100 yards in the wind in Springfield Oregon with his ..32 Miller Short.i doubt bp loads could have done that in the time restraints.     jmho
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rgchristensen
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 621
Joined: Jan 2nd, 2014
Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #14 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 7:04am
Print Post  
      With a .40 cal ML rifle, 420 gr GG bullet, 75 gr Swiss 1.5Fg, scope/bench, I shot two consecutive groups that could almost be COVERED with a quarter.
      That said, I don't think 1000 yd shooting with our big ctg. guns can be done with s----less powder, as it is much easier to get consistent velocity with BP.

CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Send TopicPrint