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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Black Powder Accuracy (Read 1601 times)
gunlaker
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #45 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:17pm
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.22-5-40 wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:45pm:
I have yet to shoot breech-seated black powder loads in my .32-40.† I have Randy Wrights Schuetzen book...how do you guys reload at range?† Do you bring drop tube..and if so, how long? (the one in loading room is 36")..is this length needed for the little .32?† I do have a Harrell's black powder measure...as well as a set of glass vials I thought would simplify things to take to range.† Thanks!


I used to load BP at the range from a measure but switched to using pre-charged cases for a few reasons:

- There would sometimes be people who must have wondered what the measure was and couldn't resist pulling the handle and dumping powder on the ground while I was changing targets Smiley
- on humid days the accumulated powder fouling in the case would draw moisture from the air before I could scrape out the case.  I think this negated any possible gain I'd get from using a single case.  I live in the pacific north wet so this probably doesn't apply to you.
- I didn't see any accuracy increase over pre-charged cases.  But then I'm not a super accomplished benchrest shooter.

When I did that, I used a Harrel's measure, but if you want to try Fg ( which actually works very well in the .32-40 ) you'll find it won't go through a Harrels.   The MVA measure is much better that way, and as least as consistent.

I used a 24" drop tube and a compression plug to hold the powder in the case with a 0.030" wad.

Chris.

  
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gunlaker
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #46 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:20pm
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Oh yeah....   With respect to the glass vials, I like them quite a bit once I've established a powder charge ( usually just a full case Smiley.    I have a bunch I bought from Buffalo Arms.  They fit nicely into the plastic MTM shotgun ammo boxes.

Chris.
  
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Mick B
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #47 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 6:01pm
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I have to go with Chris on this, I tried the one case approach when breech seating bullets in my Stevens CPA 40/60 and found that it was a lot of trouble having to scrape out the cases and de cap and re cap them etc.  I ended up just charging  the cases at home and putting a floral foam wad in the case mouth to stop the powder spilling out.
I shoot only black powder and shoot with the local black powder club so it's a level playing field, no one is at a disadvantage using black. At a competition where either black or smokeless are allowed, then smokeless will win just about every time, especially at the shorter ranges.
Mike.
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #48 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 6:07pm
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marlinguy wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 4:09pm:
svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 2:46pm:
From what little I have read of that Quigley match it is basically a very popular shoot that allows quite a wide range of rifles, as well as both BP and nitro. Other than some safety restrictions, it does not seem like a venue that has anything like the rigor need to reliably compare long range group sizes from BP vs nitro loads. Maybe some individual Quigley shooters do have the skills and rigor to do, but, would they make the effort?

Other than perhaps ASSRA, etc. what are the specific, well organized precision rifle shooting venues that might rank as suited to complete a definitive comparison of long range group sizes for BP vs nitro powders? Would they even be interested?


The Quigley doesn't really allow a very wide range of rifles. It's restricted to "any traditional single shot or lever action rifle". That's not very wide range is it?
Loads are restricted to cast bullets, and smokeless or BP.
Yes it's a gong or dinger match. But if you think that makes it a walk in the park, or no real accuracy required, then look at who wins it, or who even shoots in the top third. Might ask those who say it doesn't require any accuracy how many times they've placed in that top third?
And I seriously doubt most shooters have won by ricocheting bullets onto targets. It might happen on rare occasion, but certainly not the norm.
And it does take a fair amount of accuracy, or they'd be giving out 8 pins like they were free sample ice cream cones.

But there are a number of gun clubs around the country who open their long range matches to both BP and smokeless, and most shoot targets, not dingers. So it's not hard to compare equal traditional single shots with both powders and get results. And it certainly wouldn't require a match for anyone using the same gun with both powders to come up with results as to which worked best, or was most accurate.


As usual Val you're trolling is just way outside the park.
If you've ever been to the Quigley, then you'll know there are rifles anywhere from Hand rifles held together with duct tape , and Ruger #1's etc to some really fine Shiloh's, C Sharps etc.
Go back and reread, a bullet skipped into the target counts the same as a dead center hit. Most of those targets are from 4-6 moa, with absolutely no way to confirm who hit where on it.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #49 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:20pm
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I have been to the Quigley Don, but only to observe. I saw no duct taped guns, but did see one Ruger done up as a BPCR type rifle with full, heavy octagon barrel. Saw some inexpensive clones there of various brands too, but still single shots in the spirit of the game. Considering safety is important at Quigley, just as it is at most matches, I'd guess you're exaggerating to make such a statement of poor quality guns.
Not sure what you're idea of "trolling" is, but I'm not surprised at the comment, as it's not the first time you've made it.
I never said a skipped in bullet wasn't counted, and in fact only said I doubt it rarely happened. Are you saying it's common, or that people win matches skipping bullets?
I suppose I should bow to your expertise since you constantly remind everyone you won a BPTR match. So how did you do at Quigley with it being so darn easy, and no accuracy required?
  

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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #50 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:22pm
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Jeff_Schultz wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 4:54pm:
† †free sample ice cream cones.
† Now you've got my attention! I've never had one, but would sure like to! Are they good? Cheesy


Donno -- free SAMPLE -- sounds like one of those one-biters. What happens after that first bite? Huh
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #51 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:32pm
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Jeff_Schultz wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 4:54pm:
† †free sample ice cream cones.
† Now you've got my attention! I've never had one, but would sure like to! Are they good? Cheesy


They're just like the full sized cones only tiny. So yes, they taste even better when they're free samples.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #52 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:34pm
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svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:22pm:
Jeff_Schultz wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 4:54pm:
† †free sample ice cream cones.
† Now you've got my attention! I've never had one, but would sure like to! Are they good? Cheesy


Donno -- free SAMPLE -- sounds like one of those one-biters. What happens after that first bite? Huh


Well I'd assume you'd either like it and buy one, or don't and don't buy one. What other option would you have?
  

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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #53 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 8:02pm
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marlinguy wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:20pm:
I have been to the Quigley Don, but only to observe. I saw no duct taped guns, but did see one Ruger done up as a BPCR type rifle with full, heavy octagon barrel. Saw some inexpensive clones there of various brands too, but still single shots in the spirit of the game. Considering safety is important at Quigley, just as it is at most matches, I'd guess you're exaggerating to make such a statement of poor quality guns.
Not sure what you're idea of "trolling" is, but I'm not surprised at the comment, as it's not the first time you've made it.
I never said a skipped in bullet wasn't counted, and in fact only said I doubt it rarely happened. Are you saying it's common, or that people win matches skipping bullets?
I suppose I should bow to your expertise since you constantly remind everyone you won a BPTR match. So how did you do at Quigley with it being so darn easy, and no accuracy required?

I shot about 10 Quigleys, haven't been back for several years. Have seen a wide variety of rifles there, just as I described. During those times, I've seen folks skip bullets in, I've seen rock splatter set the radio off, and I've seen the target stand get hit by a slider that struck hard enough to set the radio off.
Never won a Q, never intended to, most of them I simply shot with the ladder sights on my sharps.Funny thing is I never got an 8 straight hit on a target after they started giving the pins out. Gong matches are for fun, not accuracy potential.
BPTR and Schuetzen are where you go to see just what sort of accuracy you can milk out of your rifle.
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #54 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 8:11pm
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marlinguy wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 7:22pm:
Jeff_Schultz wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 4:54pm:
† †free sample ice cream cones.
† Now you've got my attention! I've never had one, but would sure like to! Are they good? Cheesy


Donno -- free SAMPLE -- sounds like one of those one-biters. What happens after that first bite? Huh


Well I'd assume you'd either like it and buy one, or don't and don't buy one. What other option would you have?


1) don't eat it. 2) only eat sample cause either dieting or no money or frugal. So many choices, even with one-bite samples.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #55 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 8:41pm
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Only you would come up with getting a free sample and not eating it.
  

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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #56 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 9:22pm
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marlinguy wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 8:41pm:
Only you would come up with getting a free sample and not eating it.


Presumptious!! and, wrong, of course. Poor guy Kiss
  
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #57 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 11:29pm
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svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 9:22pm:
marlinguy wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 8:41pm:
Only you would come up with getting a free sample and not eating it.


Presumptious!! and, wrong, of course. Poor guy Kiss

Do you sprinkle Black Powder on top of your free ice cream samples, Grisen, and how has it affected your Black Powder Accuracy?
  

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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #58 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 7:29am
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So far, Iíve gotten two Chickens in BPCR Silhouette matches by skipping the bullets off the ground.

It takes Minnesota Fats skill plus a Euclidian knowledge of geometric angles, not to mention a solid understanding of the effect of the ground impact on bullet shape and remaining velocity.  The geological composition of the ground in front of the target also has to be taken into effect.

Also, the Coriolus Effect.

Itís actually more difficult than mere holding and squeezing and a successful demonstration always rouses the observing crowds to a fever pitch.  The kids want to be just like me when they grow up; the women all want to be with me; the men all want to be me; autographs and product endorsements sought, etc.

I just wish I could do it more consistently.

Tongue
  
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Re: Black Powder Accuracy
Reply #59 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 9:21am
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Cheesy Yeh that bank shot chicken shooting takes some skill, much like shooting the edgeways 2x4 that holds the target in the frames at 1000 yards.  Unfortunately in BPTR skipping one in results in a miss and a lot of grumbles from the guys in the pits about repairing targets and getting the dust and rocks out of their shirts.  Wink
  
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