Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 44-85 Wesson (Read 3229 times)
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6788
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #15 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 4:37pm
Print Post  
GT I had also noticed where you had mentioned you made your own PP mould and a shared interest of my own did you lathe bore it or cherrie cut if you don't mind my asking as I choose to cherrie cut my own. I would also enjoy seeing a picture of the mould if you do not mind and is this something you are also teaching your students who are building their rifles to also possibly do.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GT
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 834
Location: Northeast Wyoming
Joined: Jun 28th, 2015
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #16 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 5:53pm
Print Post  
I lathe bore my molds - I spend the majority of my life running a lathe so it's my preference - this depends on the week of course  Wink  This mold started as a double cavity 38 and 40 PP mold, I didn't like how the 38 turned out so I set it back up and cut the 38 for a 44.
No, I taught a couple of machining classes about 20 years ago, this isn't what I'm teaching now.  My gunbuilding classes - they either need to know how to machine or they have to catch on real quick - my next class has pulled a few out of the woodwork that have lathes and mills at home so it should be interesting.   I explain and show how to build reamers, molds, sights, dies, etc. so that they can do this in their own place and time, but the class is intense on the action build. 
I have a couple returning for the next semester I teach - to finish the rifle - barrel and wood, but they are more/less on their own.
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"  G.C. Tryon
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6788
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #17 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 6:44pm
Print Post  
Thank you GT and it's very beautiful work as is all of your machine work as well as your other work not related too. Below is one of mine and a cherrie cut and I don't know how to go about lathe boring a mould yet. It is something I have wanted to learn  how do and it's on my bucket list I just haven't quite reached that point yet. Don't look at the bullet to closely it came out of the reject pile and all I had at the moment and the mould itself is a bit untypically not as clean as they are kept.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GT
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 834
Location: Northeast Wyoming
Joined: Jun 28th, 2015
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #18 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 2:10am
Print Post  
  I'd welcome a little input from folks here.   I (mostly) finished this rifle with hopes of it liking and shooting PP and BP for use at a couple of mid-range matches I show up for...  Wink  It's giving me fits and I'm about done wasting time with this force feeding.  I have two loads now that it's really liking, "smokeless and greasers" - the groups I'm getting out of it are worth a little more time.  The PP bullets though just don't seem to work - they do in another rifle, but not this one!  This rifle doesn't care for black with anything beyond a couple hundred yards - never had one this finicky either. 
Today I ran the loads past the LabRadar and the findings were interesting- thought I share.  In the attached photo, are the current bullets I've been using.  From left to right, my PP core, the BC as cast (bore size), in my samples calculated to be .185 with a smokeless load, with black the BC was .280.  I bumped it up a couple thousandths in a bumping die as a trial and then down a couple with a sizing die with no significant change in groups or BC.  I've shot both below and well above trans-sonic also not much change in BC's or groups.  Group size at 100 yards appeared to be very impressive (as shown earlier) but went to minute of hillside at 400.  (I have a Ballard in 44-77 with a Krieger barrel that really likes this bullet, as cast and diapered, with black so I thought it'd be easy  Tongue)   Now what's really throwing me off, a Lyman mold that drops a 350 gr. .4469" shoots well to 200 with smokeless, a BC of .356 -  dislikes everything black...   I got a couple molds from BACO, one's a 480 gr. Money and one's a 525 gr. Money both throw a 20:1 alloy as described, both at .4465" dia.   Shot with smokeless today produced calculated BC's of .425 and .489 respectively and at a 100 have had groups of 1-1/2" with smokeless.  I have shot the 480 gr with the same load at 400 yds. with impressive results last week, I have loads put together to go give these two bullets a try out to 600 tomorrow if time permits.  I'm thinking I'll stay with my smokeless load in this rifle unless someone has a brilliant idea I haven't tried...
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"  G.C. Tryon
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hiwall55
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 320
Location: west central Illinois
Joined: Jun 30th, 2012
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #19 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 3:45am
Print Post  
Greg,I have the Lyman and can't  get it to shoot with BP in my 44 Maynard  either. I also have the 480 BACO money that will shoot very well with BP ,but past  300 had to go with a harder alloy, I think the nose was slumping. Went with 15 to 1 and shot  alot better. Mine  casts at .447 with 2 bands reduced to bore size with enough OE 1.5 to fill the case up and just get the wad to stay in the case to compress it.
Also on my neck turned 40-60 Maynard  I found that I have to shoot the brass several times before I get good groups, just my 2 cents worth YMMV.
I always  like your posts ,so keep up the good work.
Bill
« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2019 at 3:53am by Hiwall55 »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Old-Win
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1251
Location: Minnesota
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #20 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 8:00am
Print Post  
Your paper patch bullet has a very skinny nose.   I'm wondering if the spike from the bullet bumping up with black powder isn't causing some of the bullets to slump off center.  Try harder lead, maybe sixteen to one and use it with the black powder to see if that makes an improvement.  Back in 2008 Laurie Kerr from New Zealand shot his 44-85 in the last World Matches held in the United States and did very well with it.  I think he won mid-range and placed very high in the long range.  He had one case separation which caused him to have a miss and that hurt his score.
« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:48pm by Old-Win »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GT
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 834
Location: Northeast Wyoming
Joined: Jun 28th, 2015
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #21 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 1:16pm
Print Post  
Thanks guys for the input, I expected comments about the alloy.  it's the one thing I haven't messed with, I mixed a batch of lead a while back and it's been working very good in everything else, and haven't wanted to make any changes...  I put together a new pot so maybe I'll start it out with a different mix and see what happens. 
Bill, I have experienced that on several of the rifles I build- reload and shoot them several times before they come around - my only problem with that is -by the time they start settling in and performing, I'm bored and have started another rifle and process...  This year though, I have this season's rifle shooting well before the start and may have several cycles done before I go to a match  Grin  I just finished forming the last 25 cases so they have some catching up to do...
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"  G.C. Tryon
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 228
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #22 - Apr 21st, 2019 at 12:05am
Print Post  
Greg in my Green Mountain 44 barrel, grease groove bullets at .448 and patched at .435 wrapped in 7 lb paper work very well.
16-1 alloy will be your friend.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GT
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 834
Location: Northeast Wyoming
Joined: Jun 28th, 2015
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #23 - Apr 22nd, 2019 at 12:14am
Print Post  
I made up a batch of 16:1 tonight and cast a few maybe with some luck I get things loaded and shoot some this week.
Don, I can't remember - are you wiping between shots or using a blow tube?
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"  G.C. Tryon
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 228
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #24 - Apr 22nd, 2019 at 10:06am
Print Post  
Wiping between shots with the BACO bore wiper set up. Felts soaked in napa water soluble oil and water 1part oil 7 parts water. With the bore pig pushed thru with a 2 1/4 in flannel patch on the tip of the rod. Same set up with greasers, only just using 1 felt on the bore pig.
If you've seen this before , my apologies. 3 different loads at 600,
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GT
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 834
Location: Northeast Wyoming
Joined: Jun 28th, 2015
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #25 - Apr 22nd, 2019 at 8:08pm
Print Post  
Don,
I'm really becoming a sorry sap, I believe we've had this discussion once before, I found I even bought the pigs from BACO - I don't remember the target clearly so that may be new - nice target!
The excuse I always used is I've slept since then and I drank a beer - but I don't know if I can get away with that anymore - I do neither, I'll have to change it to "I've been under general anesthesia now" and CRS!
Thanks for your patience -  Smiley 
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"  G.C. Tryon
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 228
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #26 - Apr 22nd, 2019 at 8:24pm
Print Post  
Grin Greg it's old timers desease. Cheesy
You can also get by fairly well with pushing a wet patch or two down the bore on a nylon brush followed up with a dry one.
That target was shot with less than 100 rounds down the tube, I still don't have 500 rounds thru it, but it's shot some very good groups out to 1000. Needless to say it's sure showing some promise. Going to run it at Alliance in a couple of weeks and am planning to use it at Worland.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GT
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 834
Location: Northeast Wyoming
Joined: Jun 28th, 2015
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #27 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 11:59pm
Print Post  
I didn't have time to get this finished for the first shoot of the year, but I'm real close to having done for my second shoot.  It's not a show piece but like a one fella stated, it's not a "yawner" either -  Grin 
Here's the action fresh out of the quench tank followed by a couple more cleaned up and Wipe on Poly applied.  I had to stuff it in the wood and see how things match, the Damascus hardware may need a little bluing to bring the contrast in right.  I've decided to just do a rust brown on the barrel and it's still work in process.

I tried black several times in this and it just doesn't perform the way it does with smokeless - so smokeless it is...I'm shooting it in a mile match around the 4th if I get the new sight finished... so we'll have some more to comment I'm sure.
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"  G.C. Tryon
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 228
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #28 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 8:44am
Print Post  
Looks pretty nice.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1760
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: 44-85 Wesson
Reply #29 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:08am
Print Post  
Greg, That is a good looking rifle. Casehardening turned out well.
Several features I really like. Be sure to show finished pictures and how it shoots.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint