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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 33-47 Drawing (Read 2737 times)
Dales
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33-47 Drawing
Nov 27th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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Does anyone have a drawing for a 33-47 chamber reamer with a throat for breech seating that they would share ?
Dales
  
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bohemianway
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #1 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 2:25pm
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Ditto for me. I am wondering if there is a reasonable design set for combination breech seating and fixed. The thought is if there was consensus on a design or off the shelf offering that I, or a group, would buy and loan out to others. I always see it as inefficient for everyone to buy their  own reamer and use it once. I understand you don't know the quality of each individuals machining capability but ... Also, how many chambers should a standard reamer cut before it is spent?

Anyway, anxious to see the reply's to your request,
Charles
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #2 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 2:29pm
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No drawing but I can tell you my Steven's Pope 33-47 has a 32-40 chamber in a .33 barrel.  The OD of the case is approximately the same diameter as the bullet.  No throat, just chamber and barrel.
  

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JLouis
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #3 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 3:27pm
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That is one thing to be very aware of as there is a 33-40 and a 33-47 and they are not one in the same. The 33-40 does not allow the bullet to be seated into a breech seater or the case as it simply uses the 32-40 case as was designed. CPA offers both and I once owned the 33-40 version and found it to be useless all though you can breech seat a bullet using a push type seater but it can also be iffy in regards to it being seated central to the bore. The 33-47 on the other hand is simply the 32-40 case blown out to 33 and obviously by far the better choice. I would think Gail at CPA might have a copy of their 33-47 reamer design that she might be able to scan and send but you also need to make it clear to her you want the 33-47 design and not their 33-40 design.

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JLouis
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #4 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 3:38pm
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I might add the 33-47 is straight tapered to so if wanting to also shoot fixed you might then want a custom reamer that also includes a short straight neck of around .300 thousands or what you feel you would actually need. Dependant on the freebore that would be required for that purpose and based on the length of the bullet being used so only the straight portion of the  base is inside and being gripped by the case. I hope that all makes since?

JLouis
  
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #5 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 4:00pm
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No, it doesn't. How does a 32-40 case in a .33 barrel being used for BS or ML holding 47 grs of BP fit in there? Roll Eyes

No amount of blowing out will accommodate the additional 7 grs of BP. The only way to do that is by BS or ML putting the bullet in front of the case. Shocked. Should not a BS or ML .32 be properly called a .32-47?
  

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JLouis
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #6 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 4:13pm
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There are 10 barrels now cut with the same and bought used 28-35 reamer so who knows how many might have been cut prior. It still cuts as new so I would think that a reamers life is really dependant on how it is used and not abused.
  
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JLouis
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #7 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 4:25pm
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BobZ the 33-40 would persay only hold 40 grains I would assume and having never used BP I cannot honesty say how much the 33-47 might hold? I am not sure what else you are trying to point out but with H108 smokless the 33-47 only takes 14.7 grains compared to the 32-40's 14.2 grains to achieve the same 1474fps average velocity. I know I am missing something in what you had to share I am just not sure what that might be so I am a bit confused.

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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #8 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 4:29pm
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Great information. Thanks,

Also, how can the bullet not be centered if it is .338 and the neck of the 32-40 is .338? a seater cannot do any better. Even if the bullet is tapered you would have the same problems either way.

Charles
  
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JLouis
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #9 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 4:57pm
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When placing the bullet into the chamber to seat it it is also laying at an angle and being pushed at that angle. By not having the nose sitting central to the bore the top of the nose is now being forced down by the upper part of the bore in it's efforts to now raise the base up to becoming more central to the bore. This has a tendency to damage the nose very slightly and could even bend it a bit if being of a long and fragile spitzer design and where the iffy comment I made comes into play. But using a seater with the bullet inserted into the case it is already being seated central to bore if the seater case is made correctly. Buy that I mean the seater case not being tapered on the inside but cylindrical and the seater plug being square and of the right size and that the seater case has been blown out to fit the chamber. The way I achieve it is by turning my seater cases out of 12L14 but if you can get your hands on a RMC case also cylindrical on the inside the chamber fit might be close enough to achieve the same. So what you end up with is the nose centering itself into the bore and the base of the bullet being well centered in the case.

JLouis
« Last Edit: Nov 27th, 2018 at 5:23pm by JLouis »  
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #10 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 11:23pm
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JLouis wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 4:25pm:
BobZ the 33-40 would persay only hold 40 grains I would assume and having never used BP I cannot honesty say how much the 33-47 might hold? I am not sure what else you are trying to point out but with H108 smokless the 33-47 only takes 14.7 grains compared to the 32-40's 14.2 grains to achieve the same 1474fps average velocity. I know I am missing something in what you had to share I am just not sure what that might be so I am a bit confused.

JLouis

.32-40 was named because of a .32 bullet and 40 grs of BP in a loaded case.  .33-47 is impossible with the same case ever if blown out to straight taper because 47 grs of BP will not fit. The empty .32-40 case holds 47 grs of BP (Trust me, I have shot a lot of it  Roll Eyes ). This whole .32, .33 - 40, 47 thing is just a lot of pointless confusion.  If it is ML or BS, either .32 or .33 would logically be a 47 according to the original definitions.  With a bullet in loaded ammo, they would both be -40.
  

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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #11 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 11:32pm
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bohemianway wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
Great information. Thanks,

Also, how can the bullet not be centered if it is .338 and the neck of the 32-40 is .338? a seater cannot do any better. Even if the bullet is tapered you would have the same problems either way.

Charles


That is the only way I can explain how my .33-47 works.  The tapered bullet nose finds itself centered in the bore.  The bullet base and case OD are the same so it has to be centered and straight; impossible not to be. The only way it can be loaded is with a push rod as the bullet will not fit into a normal breech seater made with a case. 

When I first got this rifle, I wondered what I had got myself into.  I called Buck Emmert who was well know for shooting Pope rifles at that time. He told me 2 things.  He said everything would be fine and is was. He owned his own business like I did.  He said to price a new rifle into every job  Grin
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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JLouis
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #12 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:13am
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BobZ all I was trying to point out is the 33-40 as you stated will not allow a bullet to be seated in the case but a 33-47 will based on all of those I have seen and also the way my 33-47 Bresien was chambered. Here is a bit of information from CPA's Web and it now begs me to ask if your barrel was possibly re-rifled to 33 or made that way as is also stated.

.33-40 Sometimes called the .33-47, this caliber is merely the .32-40 with .338 groove rifling. It was originally made to enable shooters to get a new barrel by just rerifling a worn out or damaged barrel, but there were a number of barrels originally made in this caliber, especially as Stevens-Popes. It is easy to tell if an original Stevens-Pope barrel has been rerifled by Stevens, as the marking on the underside of the barrel is changed. In these days, it is a simple matter to use a 14 twist Douglas .338 barrel. .33 bullets should be 20 grains heavier than .32s, and another grain of powder can be used. This caliber shoots very well indeed, and it is surprising that it is seldom used in modern made rifles
« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:25am by JLouis »  
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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #13 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:42am
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It appears to be an original Stevens-Pope .33-47.  No older markings.
  

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Re: 33-47 Drawing
Reply #14 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 2:10am
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" He said everything would be fine and is was. He owned his own business like I did.  He said to price a new rifle into every job" 
 
I REALLY LIKE THAT COMMENT!!!

Not sure all my jobs could handle that, and if they could I'd have to build another vault the size of my current shop!
Sometimes I have 15 jobs per month that may be able to...  beats the current recovery plan of a gun a month I live by now!!!
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$" G.C. Tryon
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