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rifal
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Fred Ross
Jan 11th, 2019 at 9:48pm
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I have always been amazed of Fred Ross of Springfield MA. and his skill as a marksman for the Stevens company during the grand era of the schuetzen game in the USA. Would love to see any photos of him or his rifles used.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #1 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:21am
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Frederick C. Ross was indeed a skilled marksman and worked and shot closely with HM Pope. He also ran the barrel making operation for Stevens-Pope barrels after Pope parted way with Stevens. Some say his barrels after Pope left were as good as Pope's, and from what I've seen they shoot as well.
I'll have a look through my books and see if I can scan a picture of Frederick Ross.

  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #2 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 3:10pm
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I supplied John with a photo of Ross on pg 188 in his book, but there is a better photo of his face on pg 339.
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #3 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 7:47am
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I would like to know more about John's book. what is the book called?
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #4 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 9:24am
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rifal wrote on Jan 13th, 2019 at 7:47am:
I would like to know more about John's book. what is the book called?


John Dutcher's Ballard book, now out of print & selling for around $200; includes a wonderful collection of period photos.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #5 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 12:45pm
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rifal wrote on Jan 13th, 2019 at 7:47am:
I would like to know more about John's book. what is the book called?


"Ballard, The Great American Singleshot Rifle".
  

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JLouis
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #6 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 1:33pm
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It has been said Ross learned from Pope and there were some Ross barrels supposedly going out the door as Pope's but I am not sure how truthful that might be. The relationship between Pope and Steven's was not a good one to say the least and I do believe it could have caused there to be some questionable information being tossed about.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #7 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 1:39pm
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JLouis wrote on Jan 13th, 2019 at 1:33pm:
It has been said Ross learned from Pope and there were some Ross barrels supposedly going out the door as Pope's but I am not sure how truthful that might be. The relationship between Pope and Steven's was not a good one to say the least and I do believe it could have caused there to be some questionable information being tossed about.


Ross worked at Stevens right alongside Pope in the barrel making dept. When Pope had his famous falling out with Stevens Ross took over. Stevens-Pope barrels made up to around 1300 serial number or so were when Pope was there. But Stevens-Pope barrels number up somewhere around 1800-1900 serial range, so obvious that Ross made confirmed barrels marked Stevens-Pope after Pope left.
It took a letter from Pope to Stevens to get Stevens to stop using his name on their barrels. But Ross continued making barrels after the rollstamp was changed also.
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #8 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 2:09pm
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Marlinguy so was Ross copying Pope's barrels at the time or was he using something a bit different during that time. I know very little about the man and if he was copying Pope did he gone on to develop his own rifling design or did he continue to copy Pope's through his barrel making life span.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #9 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 3:14pm
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JLouis wrote on Jan 13th, 2019 at 2:09pm:
Marlinguy so was Ross copying Pope's barrels at the time or was he using something a bit different during that time. I know very little about the man and if he was copying Pope did he gone on to develop his own rifling design or did he continue to copy Pope's through his barrel making life span.


Ross' rifling was just like Pope's and left hand twist also John. I own a Stevens-Pope done by Ross and it looks just like my Pope barreled rifles. If we didn't know when Pope left, we couldn't tell the difference examining the bores.
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #10 - Jan 24th, 2019 at 7:49pm
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Ross rifling was not like Pope rifling he used a 8 groove right hand twist. When he was rifling a Stevens Pope Barrel then it was just like Pope’s left hand twist rifling.
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #11 - Jan 24th, 2019 at 8:53pm
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Gain SS Jeff or possibly not ?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #12 - Jan 25th, 2019 at 8:32am
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s.s.jeff wrote on Jan 24th, 2019 at 7:49pm:
Ross rifling was not like Pope rifling he used a 8 groove right hand twist. When he was rifling a Stevens Pope Barrel then it was just like Pope’s left hand twist rifling.


My reference to Ross' rifling being just like Pope's was pertaining to Stevens-Pope barrels made by Ross after Pope's departure. He made those barrels exactly as Pope made them.
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #13 - Jan 25th, 2019 at 12:13pm
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What became of Ross after Stevens ceased mfg. of high-grade target rifles?  After the war, did he find employment with any other gunmaker?
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #14 - Jan 25th, 2019 at 6:17pm
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At some point of his life he was a sheet metal worker and installed furnaces.
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #15 - Jan 25th, 2019 at 7:10pm
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s.s.jeff wrote on Jan 25th, 2019 at 6:17pm:
At some point of his life he was a sheet metal worker and installed furnaces.


A useful & honorable trade, but, what a sad waste of his exceptional skill & talent.
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #16 - Jan 26th, 2019 at 8:48am
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Where “what books” would I find info on Ross.  Ledball
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #17 - Jan 26th, 2019 at 1:30pm
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ledball wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 8:48am:
Where “what books” would I find info on Ross.  Ledball


Several books mention him, but none I know of have anything to say beyond his association with Stevens & his marksmanship. Possibly some biographical details could be found by searching Shooting & Fishing.
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #18 - Feb 2nd, 2019 at 5:54pm
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The archives have a number of letters between Pope and Ross all the way to 1913. Very friendly and Ross asks Pope to help sell a number of rifles for him.  Copies should be available thru the archivist.
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #19 - Feb 2nd, 2019 at 8:15pm
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This is from the cover of the last SSR News, I believe that this is Fred Ross;
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #20 - Feb 2nd, 2019 at 10:13pm
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This is detail from a schuetzen match in Jersey City New Jersey; #13 Fred Ross, #14 Harry Pope #15 Mike Dorrler;
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #21 - Feb 3rd, 2019 at 1:35pm
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Here's another photo of Harry Pope and Fred Ross, as well as Ross shooting offhand;
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2019 at 2:12pm by Schutzenbob »  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #22 - Feb 4th, 2019 at 11:22am
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So there is a good chance that Fred Ross worked on my Helm high wall that was rebarreled with a Stevens-Pope barrel, serial #1849???  It has Pope style, left hand twist rifling, cal. 32-40.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #23 - Feb 4th, 2019 at 12:54pm
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Old-Win wrote on Feb 4th, 2019 at 11:22am:
So there is a good chance that Fred Ross worked on my Helm high wall that was rebarreled with a Stevens-Pope barrel, serial #1849???  It has Pope style, left hand twist rifling, cal. 32-40.


Yes. Pope's last barrels ended around 1350 if I recall correctly. Ross ran the barrel making for Stevens after Pope left, so yours is likely done under Ross' supervision.
Mine in .32-40 Stevens-Pope on a Ballard is around 1700 range, and likely under Ross' era too.
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #24 - Feb 4th, 2019 at 5:47pm
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So Vall that makes the heavy barrel .22 low wall  I got from you a Ross bbl too?


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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #25 - Feb 4th, 2019 at 7:54pm
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Yes Jack. If it's after around 1350 it is.
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #26 - Feb 4th, 2019 at 7:59pm
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The barrel # is 1778

Jack
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #27 - Feb 4th, 2019 at 9:34pm
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bpjack wrote on Feb 4th, 2019 at 7:59pm:
The barrel # is 1778

Jack


Have to check my Stevens-Pope-Ballard. I think our barrels were made very close to each other!
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #28 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 1:01pm
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From the LA Herald article on Hudson, but shows several of Ross's records.
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #29 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 2:17pm
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Oodmoff an interesting part of Ross History virtually unknown to me and I want to thank you for taking the time to share it with us here. I always thought of him as just being a barrel maker and his competitive shooting abilities were a real eye opener for me.
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #30 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:23pm
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It appears that Ross was every bit the shooter as Hudson but, Hudson had a better press agent.  Ledball
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #31 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 8:45pm
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Fred Ross at the 3rfd National Schuetzen Bund tournament at Shell Mound Park, July 1901. From the San Francisco Call Newspaper.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #32 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 12:17pm
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Hudson was probably one of the finest shooters in his time. He was a money match shooter, and made his living from winning big money matches. He needed no PR guy, as his long list of winning big money made the news without any assistance.
Ross was indeed a equally good shooter, but I think Ross had other irons in the fire with work, and didn't shoot as a full time job. Had he done it full time, he might have been even more famous than Hudson.
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #33 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 3:11pm
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I once had Stevens 49 (44 1/2) with very similar muzzle-loading set-up to Pope, but RH twist.  Not sure of barrel marking, but seem to recall standard Stevens. Unfortunately cannot find the barrel number.....
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #34 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 5:46pm
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Poorhouse wrote on Apr 13th, 2019 at 3:11pm:
I once had Stevens 49 (44 1/2) with very similar muzzle-loading set-up to Pope, but RH twist.  Not sure of barrel marking, but seem to recall standard Stevens. Unfortunately cannot find the barrel number.....


As was mentioned above, at some point after Pope left Stevens, Ross changed from left hand twist to right hand twist. But it wasn't as soon as Pope left. Not sure why Ross or Stevens decided to change the Stevens-Pope to right hand, but they eventually did.
I guess the only way to know for sure is to get input from owners of Stevens-Pope barrels made higher than around 1250, to see when they changed to right hand twist.
  

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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #35 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 6:08pm
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I thought all Stevens Pope’s were left hand twist, 1740 is left hand twist.   Ledball
  
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Re: Fred Ross
Reply #36 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 6:14pm
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ledball wrote on Apr 13th, 2019 at 6:08pm:
I thought all Stevens Pope’s were left hand twist, 1740 is left hand twist.   Ledball


#1749 is right hand. Seems we may have narrowed down when they changed. Unless it's like so many things Stevens, and numbers mean nothing.
  

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