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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30 (Read 1765 times)
John Boy
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Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Mar 22nd, 2019 at 6:35pm
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Video ...
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e
Remember the 28-30 stubbed barrel that I was going to have CPA re-cut the threads to fit their 44 1/2's?
Well, I took a long swig of Maker's Make and bit the bullet
The barrel now sits in an original 44 1/2 Stevens action & stock, about 90-95% NRA grade. The original is a 22WRF (Not listed in Blue Book), not a 22LR - 28"(not listed in Blue Book) number 2 barrel which is also another caliber I don't have.
* Baldwin vernier is out of my inventory
* TRADE MARK
   STEVENS
   Reg US Pat. OFF & FGH (what ever that means)
* Left side of the action has a "U" in a circle
* German style Schutzen but plate
* 121XX production birth date
As you can see from the video, the wood has next to zero marks and the action CC is vivid & complete.  Gail at CPA is going to cut a new #2 forearm for the new .. "Stubby"
« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2019 at 10:24pm by John Boy »  

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JLouis
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #1 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 8:11pm
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John unfortunatly the Link did not work for me do you happen to have a picture of the rifle that you can post here.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #2 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 8:42pm
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Link required that I turn off part of my firewall, and when (with some trepidation) I did that it demanded that I create a Google account.   Won't go there.   Sad.  I'd love to see what you've built, John Boy
  
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John Boy
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #3 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 8:57pm
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Picture
« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2019 at 9:31pm by John Boy »  

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Schutzenbob
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #4 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm
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This is a pic of a Stevens Favorite in 22-7½ which is the same as 22 WRF, and Remington called it "22 Remington Special." ?Quien Sabe?
  
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uscra112
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #5 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 10:26pm
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Aah, that's nice!
  
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JLouis
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #6 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 10:27pm
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Thank you John & Bob both are very interesting and very Charming!
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #7 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 11:27pm
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Just because I'm brave enough to ask dumb questions, is the .22-71/2 (or .22 WRF) the most "potent" cartridge that Stevens chambered their Favorites for?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #8 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 3:37am
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A couple of 94' Favorites had centerfire breech blocks, and were chambered in 22-15 SS.
Stevens may have figured out it wasn't the brightest idea to have done so.
  

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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #9 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 9:01am
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Stevens made for the UK market 1894's in rook calibers that were center fire
  
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uscra112
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #10 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 1:48pm
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.22-15 would be the #55 Lady Model, which Grant says was "unquestionably on the Favorite frame".  In 1900 catalog they also listed .25-20, .25-21, and .25-25 as being optional for the #55, but I won't believe that the #55 in that time was on the Favorite frame.  I won't!

Were the rook caliber rifles ever catalogued anywhere? 
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #11 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 4:57pm
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 23rd, 2019 at 1:48pm:
.22-15 would be the #55 Lady Model, which Grant says was "unquestionably on the Favorite frame".  In 1900 catalog they also listed .25-20, .25-21, and .25-25 as being optional for the #55, but I won't believe that the #55 in that time was on the Favorite frame.  I won't!

Were the rook caliber rifles ever catalogued anywhere? 

Phil,
The couple I ran across chambered in 22-15 SS were plain jane 1894 Favorites, not #55 Lady Model's.
  

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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #12 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 5:22pm
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 23rd, 2019 at 1:48pm:
.22-15 would be the #55 Lady Model, which Grant says was "unquestionably on the Favorite frame".  In 1900 catalog they also listed .25-20, .25-21, and .25-25 as being optional for the #55, but I won't believe that the #55 in that time was on the Favorite frame.  I won't!


By catalog 51 (1902, I think), they'd changed their minds, listing only .22-15, for $2 extra. Wouldn't at all be surprised if listing the larger cartridges was the result of some miscommunication between the engineering & ad depts. The standard wt. listed for the #55 was 5 lbs, so that's "unquestionably" a Favorite action; lightest 44 was 7 lbs.
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #13 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 9:27pm
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Interesting conversation on Favorites.  At various times, Stevens claimed that they were in rim fire only.  The calibers in order of present day survival numbers are 22, 32L, 25, 32 shot, 22 shot, and very rarely, 22-7&1/2-45 (WRF), all in rim fire.  The WRF is quite rare, in recording well over 500 "serial numbers", have seen only 2, and one loose barrel.  I cant count them in my study as I do not have serial numbers.  I found one 1915 which was re-barreled in 22 WRF- cant count that one either.  The above one is the only original 1894 in WRF I have noted, nice one.  I would be eager to find an original center fire.  (I had a 32RF converted to 32 long Colt by Curt Hardcastle in Silver City NM a while back.)

22s probably were more numerous, but the ammo was cheaper, and they ended up in the pickup floorboard with corrosive primers, and they were used up, most likely when, I suspect the other calibers were treated like "real guns" and cleaned.

James
  
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uscra112
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #14 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 10:38pm
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As Favorites, I don't see any catalog listing any centerfire, ever, but as mentioned the Model 55 was offered in 22-15-60 at least.  Since the requisite parts were being made, who's to say that a few Favorites didn't acquire some.   

Now I'm off to find my breech-thrust calculator to see how a .25-20 would compare with a .32 Long RF.  Maybe I can justify a .25-20 barrel for the 1915 I converted.  Shocked

------------------- I'm back.

A 1400 fps load of in the .25-20 case with an 86 grain bullet would be more than double the thrust of .22 Standard Velocity.  Nope.  Ain't gonna try it. Even with some serious re-inforcement of the breechblock support, I ain't gonna try it. 
« Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2019 at 11:06pm by uscra112 »  
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slumlord44
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #15 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 1:23am
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I have a Favorite in .22 WRF marked .22WRF. Where they ever marked .22 7 1/2? I knew they were scarce which is why I grabbed this one when it came up on GunBroker. I would have to dig it out to see which model it is. I've never seen a Favorite in centerfire. Did see a 55 Ladies Model though. I believe it was on a Favorite frame but it was at a Kansas City Kansas gun show many years back and I don't recall the details. It was rough as I recall.
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #16 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 2:14am
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slumlord44 wrote on Mar 24th, 2019 at 1:23am:
I have a Favorite in .22 WRF marked .22WRF. Where they ever marked .22 7 1/2? I knew they were scarce which is why I grabbed this one when it came up on GunBroker. I would have to dig it out to see which model it is. I've never seen a Favorite in centerfire. Did see a 55 Ladies Model though. I believe it was on a Favorite frame but it was at a Kansas City Kansas gun show many years back and I don't recall the details. It was rough as I recall.

I've seen some 94' Favorite barrels marked 22 7 1/2 across the years and obtained a smoke pull off of one that had a nice clean marking, but have not run across one that was marked 22 WRF.   Grin
  

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John Boy
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #17 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 10:09am
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While one the subject of a 44 1/2:
TRADE MARK
   STEVENS
Reg US Pat. OFF & FGH (what ever that means)
* Left side of the action has a "U" in a circle
What do these marks represent?
  

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Redsetter
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #18 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 10:20am
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John Boy wrote on Mar 24th, 2019 at 10:09am:
While one the subject of a 44 1/2:
TRADE MARK
   STEVENS
Reg US Pat. OFF & FGH (what ever that means)
* Left side of the action has a "U" in a circle
What do these marks represent?


The "U" is thought to be a proof-mark introduced after the company was reorganized in the aftermath of the Westinghouse takeover during WWI.  The other markings were probably introduced at the same time. Earliest use of the "Trademark" I've seen is in a 1919 catalog.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #19 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 10:22am
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Except 44 1/2 wasn't produced after the war.  Or was it?

Can you post closeups of the markings?

  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #20 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 10:31am
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uscra112 wrote on Mar 24th, 2019 at 10:22am:
Except 44 1/2 wasn't produced after the war.  Or was it?


That period during & immediately after the war is a particularly murky one.  There were undoubtedly 44-1/2s in various stages of production when Westinghouse upended the apple cart, & it's not reasonable to believe they were simply discarded after the war.  So I would assume all the receivers that could be found were assembled & sold, even if they weren't cataloged.  Although, if a 1918 catalog or ad could be found, maybe they were advertised, until the supply of actions was exhausted.
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #21 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 1:36pm
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Knowing how large company's think, it might be that they simply melted the surplus stock down (including 44 1/2's), to make Russian rifles.

I doubt Westinghouse had any interest in SS rifles or their history, when it came to making money! Sad but, I think more likely.

Frank
  

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uscra112
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #22 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 1:58pm
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Yup, to the scrap drive with all of it.  Westinghouse did a hostile takeover of Stevens to begin with, and ran the company purely as a war profiteering operation, which is why Congress was investigating them after the war.  Quite likely they scraped every nickel out if it that they could.   'Course we can never know, because the records are gone.   Cry
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #23 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 2:41pm
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frnkeore wrote on Mar 24th, 2019 at 1:36pm:
Knowing how large company's think, it might be that they simply melted the surplus stock down (including 44 1/2's), to make Russian rifles.


It's not impossible, but all the leftover parts put together would amount to next to nothing relative to the raw material needed for the Russian order.  And it's a fact that Stevens was back in limited production very quickly after the end of the war, which implies that the tooling needed to make those guns had survived the war.  I wonder, however, if the 44-1/2 tooling was inadvertently lost or destroyed, because it seems so incredibly backward-thinking to revive an antiquated model, the 44, & yet drop their most advanced design.
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #24 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 8:48pm
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Here's what I found about Stevens 44 1/2
de Haas:
Period 1904 - 1916
Blue Book:
* 1903 - 1916
* 28" barrel is not listed in either de Haas or Blue Book
Markings:
* Trade Mark
* Barrel stamped "2"
* Barrel- Circle with the letter "P" in the circle
* Action  Circle with the number "1" in it - a "U"
« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2019 at 8:56pm by John Boy »  

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John Boy
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #25 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 9:26pm
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I knew I saw it somewhere:
TRADE MARK
   STEVENS
   Reg US Pat. OFF & FGH
But this marking was on the 1915 Favorites!
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The 1915 version, introduced in that year, was made until 1935. No patent date has been observed on the 1915 barrels. The receiver is .950″ thick, had 2 tang peep holes drilled & tapped on the upper tang, along with “model 1915″ stamped on this top tang. The top of the receiver had “TRADE MARK” on the top line, with “FAVORITE” on the center line, & “REG US PAT OFF & FRN” on the bottom line, all stamped on the top receiver flat.
  

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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #26 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 1:55am
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I dug out the .22 WRF Favorite. Its a 1915, 24" barrel, full octogon barrel marked J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co, flip up front and rear open sights. Lyman tang sight that I'm prety sure I added. Serial #L347. Hope this is of interest. I know I looked for one for a long time and this is about the only one I have seen. Looked at my catalog collection and don't have a 1915. Have 1914 which lists the .22 WRF as an option and the next one is 1918 which does not list the .22WRF. Anyone have a 1915,16,or 17 catalog for reference?
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #27 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 9:14am
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slumlord44 wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 1:55am:
Anyone have a 1915,16,or 17 catalog for reference?


My understanding is that the last "General Catalog" published before the "Crash" was #54, which (according to Cope's chronology) was first published in 1914, but then revised in 1919. If there were any "left-over" 44-1/2 models assembled after the war, this 1919 ed. is where they might have last appeared; however, none are listed in my 1919 "Pocket Catalog."  Didn't realize it until I checked the #54, but the "Trademark--Stevens" marking was already in use by 1914--it's printed beside most of the rifle descriptions.

.22 WRF was available for Favorites at no extra charge, & .22-15 for the Ladies Model ($2 extra), which, confusingly, was no longer called the model #55, but had been changed to the model #21. 

As for the years 1915-1918, I'd doubt there was advertising of any kind, but it would take a through examination of the kinds of sporting magazines Stevens might have advertised in to discover what the company was making, if anything, for the US commercial market during these years. The fact that the DBA name was changed in 1916 implies an intention to "stay in business" after the Russian contract was completed.
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2019 at 9:27am by Redsetter »  
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John Boy
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #28 - Mar 26th, 2019 at 3:24pm
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Shopping days to get this Stevens 28-30-120 up and running are over:

Dies: Buffalo Arms, CH4D .. In Stock
Mold: Accurate 2x cavity clone of the 120gr Ideal bullet - 282 diameter
Brass - Rocky Mountain CC - 50 cases
Trip to CPA in Dingmans Ferry, PA for a new CF breach block - extractor for the action and a front globe for the barrel
Good thing it's near the end of the month - my monthly allowance is way over budget  Grin
  

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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #29 - May 24th, 2019 at 12:10am
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In response to the earlier question about Favorites ever being cataloged for Rook calibers, here's an English Stevens ad from 1904. Also, I used to have a 1915 Favorite in .22 WRF, and the barrel was marked ".22 WRF". Also, I was under the assumption that the WRF was an extra cost option in the Favorite and 44 1/2, at least in the catalogs that I have.
  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #30 - May 24th, 2019 at 12:23am
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Thanks!  That ad's a keeper.

  
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Re: Was a 44 1/2... 22WRF Now a 28-30
Reply #31 - May 27th, 2019 at 12:57am
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Schutzenbob wrote on Mar 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm:
This is a pic of a Stevens Favorite in 22-7½ which is the same as 22 WRF, and Remington called it "22 Remington Special." ?Quien Sabe?

That is very interesting.  I have a buggered barrel in my junk pile marked 22-7 1/2 and didn’t know what it was.  Some idiot cut an inch off and rechambered it, probably with a drill bit.  I think I might have to find a barrel off of a favorite to replace the inch that is missing, then reline it to 22 WRF and restore it for my collection.

  
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