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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ... (Read 2275 times)
Reverend Al
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1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Apr 1st, 2019 at 10:41pm
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Well, Maynard number 7 arrived in today's mail.  Refinished barrel and possibly the wood too?  Receiver still has some traces of colour case so it likely wasn't refinished.  Tang sight looks correct, but also re-blued.  Combination front sight.  Marked 1873 on one side of the receiver and 1882 on the other.  Looks to be a 26" barrel that was shortened slightly (about 25 5/8" now) possibly to clean up the muzzle and re-crown?  Mismatched barrel to the action with a good bore.  Barrel marked 1-15 twist.  I bought it to shoot so I don't really mind the "warts".  I am going to feel a bit like a "criminal" though, since up here in Canada .25-20 SS brass is scarce as hen's teeth, but I have 49 rounds of WRA .25-25 Stevens (which is even scarcer than hen's teeth ... more like Unicorn poop) that I bought in a recent online auction in Ontario and I'll shorten them up to 1.63" and turn them into "shooter" .25-20 SS cases.  (Someday down the road someone will hate me for having done it, but such is life ...)  I'll try to find a used set of dies, but in the meantime I can neck size with my .25-20 WCF dies.
There have been a few posts on this forum listing pet loads in .25-20 SS, but if anyone has any new suggestions for starting loads, recommended powders, and suitable bullet moulds I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #1 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:46am
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Nice plain rifle there, a good working gun. See if you can find some 22/3000 or 2R Lovell brass. It can be necked up to work.
  
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uscra112
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #2 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 9:41am
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If you have or have access to a small lathe and a hydraulic press, I can show you how to make serviceable .25-20 brass from common .223 Remington.
  
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uscra112
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #3 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 9:43am
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Deadeye Bly wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:46am:
Nice plain rifle there, a good working gun. See if you can find some 22/3000 or 2R Lovell brass. It can be necked up to work.


Good idea.  The Lovell was pretty popular in Ontario.
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #4 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 10:27am
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IIRC, the .25-21/.25-25 shells have a smaller head size than the .25-20 SS.  When Jamison was selling .25-20SS Basic (un-necked) cases, I read advice that these would not size down to fit .25-21 chambers.

With a lathe, dies, and some effort, usable (though ugly) shells can be made from .223s, as uscra says.

If your collecting hobby is anything like mine, six months after ruining those .25-25 shells, you will find a pristine barrel in .25-25, and have nothing to shoot in it.  Undecided
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #5 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 12:27pm
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Since it's a mismatched barrel, it might not matter much, but is the front sight closer to the muzzle than normal?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Reverend Al
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #6 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 12:34pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 12:27pm:
Since it's a mismatched barrel, it might not matter much, but is the front sight closer to the muzzle than normal?

Bill Lawrence


Yes, the barrel appears to have been shortened slightly.  I suspect it was a 26" barrel and now it is about 25 5/8" putting the dovetail / front sight closer to the end of the barrel.  My guess would be that it was shortened slightly to re-crown the muzzle.  Not worried since I bought it as a shooter ...
  

I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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Reverend Al
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #7 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 12:44pm
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Bent_Ramrod wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 10:27am:
IIRC, the .25-21/.25-25 shells have a smaller head size than the .25-20 SS.  When Jamison was selling .25-20SS Basic (un-necked) cases, I read advice that these would not size down to fit .25-21 chambers.

With a lathe, dies, and some effort, usable (though ugly) shells can be made from .223s, as uscra says.

If your collecting hobby is anything like mine, six months after ruining those .25-25 shells, you will find a pristine barrel in .25-25, and have nothing to shoot in it.  Undecided


Well that figures with my luck.  I'll mike these .25-25's and see how they compare in diameter at the base to .25-20 SS cases.  (COW is your friend ... sometimes!)  I missed out on a Stevens in .25-25 last year that was in another auction, but it bid up into the stratosphere and I quit bidding at about 1/2 of what it sold for.  Who knows, maybe I can find another one?  For what I paid for these .25-25 cases they can sit and gather dust for a bit to see if a suitable rifle does show up, or maybe I can find someone that needs them desperately and trade them off for .25-20 SS cases.

I don't have the equipment to do the radical reforming of .223 Rem brass and although another shooting friend does I'm not sure I'd want to go to that much effort to try to make some?  I'll dig around first and see if I can scare up some actual .25-20 SS cases since 50 rounds would likely be a lifetime supply for me.
  

I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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Reverend Al
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #8 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 12:48pm
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Deadeye Bly wrote on Apr 2nd, 2019 at 8:46am:
Nice plain rifle there, a good working gun. See if you can find some 22/3000 or 2R Lovell brass. It can be necked up to work.


I'll keep an eye open for brass.  I missed out on 50 rounds of brand new un-primed vintage G&H 22/3000 brass in it's original slip top box in another auction last year.  It bid up into the stratosphere too, so I gave up well below the eventual selling price.
  

I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #9 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 2:58pm
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A few years ago John Bly put one of his Maynard breeches on a Douglas 14 twist 25 cal barrel for me and chambered it for .25-20SS. Since then I've been recording all the .25-20SS load data I've found, Here is some of it:
***
25-20 SS Load
I took out my Stevens Lady's Model today to try at 50 yards off the bench.  The bore is OK; tracks of frost adjacent to the rifling lands, but original.  The load was the Ideal 257420 with Ideal gas checks, 7 gr/ IMR SR-4759 and Wolf Small Rifle primers in Nelsdale cases.  Bullets were Lino/WW range scrap with Alox/Beeswax lube.
***
  
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #10 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 3:03pm
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***
25-20 SS LOAD 
I'm still working on my load for the LoWall 25-20 SS.  Seems to like something close to 7.0g of 4227 with a 71grain GC bullet.  As near as I can tell the twist is 1 in 15.  I started out at 7.5 grains and results seem to be getting better as I lower the charge 0.1g at a time.  Tried 2400 as well, but the 4227 seems better.  I am about to switch to a 77g plain base bullet cast of #2 alloy and start over as I found an original mould dor that at a reasonable price.
George
Salmon, Idaho
***
Re: 25-20SS
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! Quote
From 12 th. Edition: Cartridges of the World:
25-20 Single Shot Loading Data and Factory Ballistics:

60 SP Bullet 8.0 grains 2400 1535 fps
65 Cast Bullet 8.0 grains 2400 1620 fps Lyman 257420
86 SP 8.5 grains IMR 4227 1400 fps
86 SP Factory Load 1410 fps
***
25/20 SS
7.5 gr of IMR 4227. No wad. 112 gr Pope style tapered bullet is breech seated in the rifling ahead of the case. Fed SR match primer.

This load is very accurate in my cast iron Ballard. It is also a very low pressure load. Safe in any sound Ballard or original low wall Winchester.         Smiley
***
Misc note - interesting
4759 is the one powder that the Harrells has a problem with, as does the Redding, which bridges terribly . I guess it is the one powder that really needs to be weighed after throwing. The Belding Mull seems the best on 4759 for consistency.
***
  
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #11 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 3:06pm
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***
.25-20 Single-Shot Data
From: The Complete Guide to Handloading, P. Sharpe

Bullet Wt. - Style - S/D - Powder - Weight - Velocity - Pressure - Comments
60 - HP - .286 - 4.0 - Unique - 1250 - 12400
60 - HP - .286 - 5.2 - Unique - 1590 - 20000
60 - HP - .286 - 6.0 - Unique - 1700 - XXXX - vel. est.
60 - HP - .286 - 8.0 - 2400 - 1535
60 - HP - .286 - 9.5 - 2400 - 1815 - 247000
60 - HP - .286 - 12.2 - 2400 - 2310 - 40000 - "extra-strong rifles only"
60 - HP - .280 - 14.0 - 2400 - 2500 - Max. - "extra-strong rifles only"
74 - Ideal-Loverin GC - 2.00 COL - 5.0 - Unique
74 - Ideal-Loverin GC - 2.00 COL - 9.0 - 2400 - 1700
75 - Ideal GC - 2.00 COL - 5.0 - Unique
86 - SP - .397 - 4.5 - Unique - 1060 - 20000
86 - SP - .397 - 5.0 - Unique - 1200 - XXXX - corrosive primer load
86 - SP - .397 - 5.5 - Unique - 1400 - XXXX - corrosive primer load
86 - SP - .397 - 7.0 - 2400 - 1130
86 - SP - .397 - 8.5 - 2400 - 1450 - 22500
86 - SP - .397 - 10.8 - 2400 - 1880 - 40000 - "extra-strong rifles only"
86 - SP - .397 - 6.0 - Unique - 1467 - 29600
86 - SP - .400 - 8.5 - 4227 - 1400
86 - Lead - .423 - 4.7 - Unique - 1480 - 20000
86 - Lead - .423 - 7.0 - 2400 - 1450
86 - Lead - .423 - 8.0 - 2400 - 1572 - 19900
86 - Lead - .423 - 9.0 - 2400 - 1705 - 25000
86 - Lead - .423 - 10.8 - 2400 - 1995 - 40000 - "extra-strong rifles only"
***
  
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #12 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 3:08pm
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***
From: The Breech-Loading Single-Shot Rifle, N. Roberts, K. Waters

88 - Lyman 257464 - 4.5 - Unique - Kapok wad
88 - Lyman 257464 - 7.5 - 2400 - Kapok wad

From: Handloader #183, October-November 1996, The .25-20 Single Shot
CCI BR-2 primers used for all loads.
Lyman 257420GC - 68 gr
8.5 - IMR4227 - 8.5 - 1430 - Bertram case
9.0 - IMR4227 - 9.0 - 1546 - Bertram case
10.0 - RL7 - 1300 - Bertram case - 1-1.5" at 50yds.
8.0 - H110 - 1350 - Rem-UMC case - 1.5"
9.0 - H110 - 1498 - necked-up .22-3000 Griffin & Howe case
8.0 - 2400 - 1600 - Bertram case - maximum - 1.25"
9.0 - IMR4198 - 1350 - necked-up .22-3000 Griffin & Howe case
9.5 - IMR4198 - 1425 - Bertram case - 1.25"
9.0 - W680 - 1200 - Bertram case
8.0 - SR4759 - 1350 - USC case - 1.5"
9.0 - SR4759 - 1700 - Bertram case

Lyman 257464GC - 90 gr
8.0 - 2400 - 1650 - Peters case
8.0 - IMR4227 - 1300 - Bertram case - 1.5"
8.5 - IMR4227 - 1385 - UMC
9.0 - IMR4227 - 1450 - UMC - 3.5"
10.0 - RL7 - 1290 - 1.5"
11.0 - RL7 - 1500 - 1.5"
7.0 - SR4759 - 1238 - Peters
8.0 - SR4759 - 1450 - Bertram case
10.0 - IMR4198 - 1440 - USC case
10.5 - IMR4198 - 1550 - Bertram case

Lyman 257312GC - 91.5 gr
7.0 - 2400 - 1375 - UMC
8.0 - 2400 - 1675 - UMC - 3"
8.0 - IMR4227 - 1300 - Bertram case - 3.5"
8.5 - IMR4227 - 1425 - Bertram case
9.0 - IMR4227 - 1450 - Peters case - Maximum
10.0 - RL7 - 1300 - necked-up .22-3000 Griffin & Howe case - 2"
11.0 - RL7 - 1460 - necked-up .22-3000 Griffin & Howe case - 2"
7.0 - SR4749 - 1150 - BELL
8.0 - SR4759 - 1350 - Bertram case
10.0 - SR4759 - 1700 - Peters case - Appears OK
10.0 - IMR4198 - 1425 - necked-up .22-3000 Griffin & Howe case - 1"
10.5 - IMR4198 - 1500 - Bertram case - 1"
11.0 - IMR4198 - 1575 - necked-up .22-3000 Griffin & Howe case - 1.5"

This article also has jacketed loads for 60-, 75- and 86-grain bullets.
***
Handloader #196, December-January 1999, .25-20 Single Shot has data for custom
94-, 105-, 108-, and 110-gr moulds (Boyle, Brockway, Hoch). Do you want it?

Another update. Finally got to try 10 shot groups at 100. Blacked the front sight but my old eyes had a lot of trouble with the fine post. Have an aperture sight ordered. It looks like around 7.5 grains of 2400 or around 8.7 grains of 4227 with the Lyman 257420 or around 7.4 grains of 4759 with the old Ideal bullet similar to 25720 (although there is some tipping) will do the trick. More when I get the new sight. Also, as the old timers had written, .257 (rather than .258) seems to be the bullet si
  
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #13 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 3:11pm
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***
Loading data for .25-20 SS?
Aug 29th, 2013 at 11:44am
Anyone have any favorite loads?
onearatime
Using an NEI 100 257(107 gr.) bullet cast 1/25, Emmett's lube, bs 1/16", sized .258, with 7.2 grs. of AA#9. MV is 1475 with an SD of 7.9. (Had one group that went .03) Average of 5-5 shot groups at 100 yds. is a shade over 1" at 1 1/16".  Pete

An update. I scoured all the usual sources and some vintage sources and decided to go with conservative charges of traditional powders. For bullets I had the only generally available Lyman mould 257420 (a light GC) and a vintage Ideal #6 combo tool marked 25-20 M (a heavier plain base similar to the old Lyman 25720). The new Lyman mould cast nice bullets in 1 to 20 from the get go. The old Ideal tool is a bit rough and man do those metal handles get hot. So off to the range today with 50 rounds of each bullet with 5 rounds of each of 3 loads for each powder, 2400, 4227, and 4759. The tenth load was of Unique which I used as a fouler and get on the target load. The first thing I learned was that I should have blacked the round brass front sight and I should have opened up the pinhole in the 102 sight on my old Stevens 44. I'm sure at least some of you know the feelings of hope and trepidation that we approach the first shooting of a new old rifle. Hope that it will shoot well in spite of a less than stellar bore and trepidation that it won't. I'm happy to report that the hope won out. With the 257420 all the 2400 loads, 7.0, 7.5, and 8.0 grains, shot well in spite of the poor sight picture with the 7.5 grains going into a .5x.8 inch vertical group at 50 yards. The 4227 didn't tighten up until the 8.5 grain load was reached where it did a .85 inch group. The 4759 is going to need some more work around 8 grains. The heavier Ideal bullet tended to tip slightly with the lighter loads but 7.5 grains of 2400 put 4 out of 5 into .71 inches with the 5th, a flyer, opening to 1.5 inches. The 4759 did better with the heavier bullet with 7.5 grains making a .7 by .95 inch horizontal group. The Unique loads are best forgotten. Now that the brass is fire formed I can get more serious with 10 shot groups at 100 yards.  oneatatime

  
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Re: 1882 Maynard .25-20 SS ...
Reply #14 - Apr 2nd, 2019 at 3:14pm
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***
Pete,  What is the number of that Lyman mold you mention?
     My Stevens 44 in 25-20SS has a 1 in 13" twist rate. I use a tang sight and a globe front with post.
     Tried a squib load today just to see if it may show some potential. Loaded the 85 grain RCBS plain base bullet as fixed ammo over a Federal 205M primer and a powder charge of 2.5 grains of Bulls Eye. I know that the velocity was down but the load shot pretty good. First 4 shots at 30 yards to see if it was going to be on paper grouped 7/16". Went to 50 yards and the first 4 shots grouped 5/8". At 100 yards the group started to open some and 5 shots went in a group that is 1 5/8". However some of the verticle in that 100 yard group was me. Three of the shots cut each other in a horizontal cluster of about 5/8". I plan to up the powder charge and try again.May go to 2.7 and then to 3.0 grains.
    The are some signs of bullet tipping in the prints at 100 yards. However this is nothing like the very poor grouping I had before with 7 and 7.5 grains of IMR4227. I plan to try those powder charges again but with a Federal 205 primer rather than the Remington #6 1/2 I used before. Maybe I just had some bad primers!
I'd like to try a lighter bullet like the one that you make mention of. Have an old Ideal ajustable mold that I may try casting some at around 65 grains with. It should be worth a try just to see what they will do.   Sendaro

Test firing with my Stevens 44 in 25-20SS has continued over the past week. The bullet that I'm using is the RCBS 25-85-CB. Why, because that is the mold that I have. I know that the design of this RCBS bullet was for the 25-20 Winchester and tube magazinerifles, but this is what I have to work with at present.
  Early in my testing I used IMR4227 as suggested by nearly all who use 25-20SS. I used Remington #6 1/2 primers and had very little luck getting anything to look like was group from the same gun. They were all over the palce. I since switched to Federal 205M primers and tested again with IMR4227 at charges of 7.0, 7.5, and 8.0 grains. It shot some nice little groups at 50 yards with the 7.5 and 8.0 grain charges. However, at 100 yards the bullet were leaving holes in the target that show a tip or yaw. Also the recorded chronograph speeds for all three loads were very eratic! SEE NEXT
  
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