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Dellet
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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #15 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 5:52pm
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Here's a 25-21, converted 204 Ruger, donor case and cross section of the web area of a 223 case. The thickness in the corner is about .030".

The converted case has 10 firings so far in a 107 action.
  
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craigd
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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #16 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 6:14pm
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.223 basic brass is straight walled, and starts out at 1.80” long. It might be a good option as a starting point for some of these cartridge conversions. It’s also nice that it doesn’t have a head stamp.
  
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uscra112
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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #17 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 6:45pm
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Resolution of those photos is too granular to make out much.

Here's how mine looked.  I was careful to get a smooth transition from the case wall to the web.  Some of mine went for .22 Lovell, which is loaded in the 50k psi range.  Anything but a perfect transition will create a stress raiser, and that's where you'll get head separations.

  
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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #18 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 10:51pm
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I had a good friend who had a low wall relined for .25, and using his own chambering reamer, finished it in 25-21.  He shot it and enjoyed it for a couple of years before lung cancer got him.  I do not know what happened to the reamer or the Winchester.  A good guy and a good gun.

James
  
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uscra112
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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #19 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 11:57pm
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In the Stevens catalogs they talk positively about loading the .25-21 with a reduced charge of black powder, with a wad on top, bullet seated as normally.   Contrary to everything I've ever read about airspace above a BP charge, and also contrary to Charlie Dell's advice about wads ringing chambers.  It's strongly touted as a feature of the cartridge.  Has always bothered me, even though I don't shoot black powder in cartridges. 

  
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marlinguy
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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #20 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 11:02am
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uscra112 wrote on Apr 7th, 2019 at 11:57pm:
In the Stevens catalogs they talk positively about loading the .25-21 with a reduced charge of black powder, with a wad on top, bullet seated as normally.   Contrary to everything I've ever read about airspace above a BP charge, and also contrary to Charlie Dell's advice about wads ringing chambers.  It's strongly touted as a feature of the cartridge.  Has always bothered me, even though I don't shoot black powder in cartridges. 



There are other references from the late 1800's of reduced loads with BP having air gaps between the bullet base and wad. In most instances the space isn't great, and the writings don't mention any concerns at all of ringing chambers.
I've always wondered why some shooters were able to load cartridges back then with air gaps, and not have any issues, when everything I read today says it's dangerous to the life of the barrel?
  

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Redsetter
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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #21 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 12:27pm
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uscra112 wrote on Apr 7th, 2019 at 11:57pm:
In the Stevens catalogs they talk positively about loading the .25-21 with a reduced charge of black powder, with a wad on top, bullet seated as normally.   Contrary to everything I've ever read about airspace above a BP charge, and also contrary to Charlie Dell's advice about wads ringing chambers.  It's strongly touted as a feature of the cartridge.  Has always bothered me, even though I don't shoot black powder in cartridges. 


One place to expect to find some clear advice on the use of wads are early Ideal Hand Books, since they offered wad-cutters "in all calibers."  But the only recommendation I found was for using thin blotting paper wads when breech seating.  On the other hand, it was pointed out that reduced loads with BP increased fouling, presumably due to incomplete combustion, which implies that use of a wad would be beneficial.
  
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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #22 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 4:19pm
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Stevens simply says "a wad" and "a thin wad" used with reduced loads, with the instruction that "In loading with reduced charges, the bullet should be seated just as if the full charge was used, not pushed right down into the shell on the powder."
Stevens also indicates experimenting with the different grain sizes of black powder for reduced loads in the 22-15-60, 25-21, 25-25 and 28-30 cartridges.
Of course, this is 120 year old news for shooters who tinker with the long and lean Stevens straight cigarillo-like cartridges.    Wink
  

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Re: stevens 44 in 25/21
Reply #23 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 9:34am
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Ned Roberts called the 25-21 the most inherently accurate .25 chambering. He was a big fan of the 25-21 case. If you breech seat you don't need a lot 10 will keep you shooting for the rest of your life.

40 Rod
  
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