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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1885 Highwall deliemna (Read 2219 times)
JSB30
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1885 Highwall deliemna
Apr 8th, 2019 at 1:42pm
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Bought a Highwall at Tulsa over the weekend. Now what to do with it. Built in 1889 #3 barrel in 40-70 SS. Barrel has been shortened to 21 inches and bore is a 2 on a 10 scale. Metal is all in  good shape.  Stock has long top tang on buttplate. Stock need repair is split at tangs but can be repaired.  Choice of next step?
Leave it alone and enjoy it.
Line the barrel and leave it at 21 inches and 40-70 SS. TJ liner.
Have rebored to 45-70.
Put new barrel on it.
Really hate to see a old gun torn apart.
Have two Highwalls in 40-70 SS now that use Buffalo Arms 30-40 Krag brass stretched but will not chamber in original barrel. Appear to be to large at base but can make a swage die to reduce them.
The 21 inch barrel is actually kind of nice but will have a big muzzle blast.
  
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JSB30
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #1 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 1:44pm
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Another picture
  
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beltfed
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #2 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:04pm
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Considering the degree of "gunbutchery" already done to it,
and Hopefully you did not put too much $$$$ into it.
I would figure you bought a rebuildable action.
Install new barrel, and replace the buttstock.
beltfed/arnie
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #3 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:06pm
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JSB30 wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 1:42pm:
The 21 inch barrel is actually kind of nice but will have a big muzzle blast.


If you like it, I'd say that almost answers your question. (I wouldn't, but that's irrelevant.)  Guess you could consider it a brush or saddle gun.  But before spending the money to line it, you might as well determine how well it shoots, esp. with jacketed bullets. 
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #4 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:15pm
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beltfed wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:04pm:
Install new barrel, and replace the buttstock.
beltfed/arnie


A new brl. would be my suggestion also, but new wood matched with such well-worn metal would be a greater eyesore than the present stocks, unless he sinks a lot of money into complete metal refinishing. 
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #5 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:33pm
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A third choice would be lengthening the existing barrel, and then lining it back to original caliber. It will save all the Winchester markings, and retain more value in the original caliber.
I have two that John Taylor did for me and they look original when done, and liners are invisible. Cost was way less than a new barrel, especially considering having all the original rollstamps applied to a new barrel. Still need to of course blue the barrel again, but need that regardless.
Contact John Taylor on this forum or through his web site John Taylor Machine.
  

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waterman
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #6 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:33pm
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A fellow shooter has a Highwall in .22 LR given the same treatment.  We call it a buggy rifle.  Shoots very well.  With a liner, you could make it into something that wouldn't have quite so much muzzle blast.  If it was mine, I'd thing about a .357 Magnum revolver cartridge.
  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #7 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 3:01pm
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Are you sure the barrel was actually shortened?  I have a high wall made in 1887 originally in 32/20 with a 30" #1 barrel (info from Cody Museum letter).  Someone took off that barrel and put on an original Winchester #1 24" barrel in 38/55.  Looks like a great woods rifle and very accurate.
Rich
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #8 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 3:45pm
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marlinguy wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:33pm:
Cost was way less than a new barrel, especially considering having all the original rollstamps applied to a new barrel.


Have heard of that procedure, but assumed the cost would be greater than for new brl.  If it's actually less, then that would be my choice also.  But not before testing brl. as is, since he doesn't object to short length, & it might shoot well enough to serve his purposes.    
  
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JSB30
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #9 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 4:38pm
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I bought it for the same amount I give for actions. I can tell  barrel was shortened because I can see hacksaw cuts where they cut new dovetail for front sight.
















  
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kensmachine
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #10 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 4:57pm
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I just got my sharps 1874 that was cut to 20" had it made back to 30" and a liner installed.  Back from John Taylor and in most part I am happy with the job you almost can't tell it's got a liner in it he told me he was going to raise the price on these type of jobs. 1 thing I was not happy with he told me 4-6 mouths to do the job but he had it done in in a month and a 1/2. I had it budgeted for 5-6 mouths not 1 mouth. Ken
  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #11 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 5:21pm
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I agree with stretching it back to 28" or 30" and lining it. If it were mine that what I would have done.
  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #12 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 5:47pm
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marlinguy wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 2:33pm:
A third choice would be lengthening the existing barrel, and then lining it back to original caliber. It will save all the Winchester markings, and retain more value in the original caliber.
I have two that John Taylor did for me and they look original when done, and liners are invisible. Cost was way less than a new barrel, especially considering having all the original rollstamps applied to a new barrel. Still need to of course blue the barrel again, but need that regardless.
Contact John Taylor on this forum or through his web site John Taylor Machine.


Sounds like the best option to me!  If you get a factory letter from Cody you'd know what length it should be restored to as well?
  

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Redsetter
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #13 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 5:56pm
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kensmachine wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 4:57pm:
1 thing I was not happy with he told me 4-6 mouths to do the job but he had it done in in a month and a 1/2.


Since the turn-around of most smiths usually works out to be twice whatever you were told, I wouldn't be too upset.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #14 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 6:11pm
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A new barrel will run several hundred dollars, or more. Then the cost of fitting it, and chambering it will run $150-$175. Then add the cost of stamping, or engraving the Winchester rollstamp at probably $150-$250. The cost of having John lengthen and reline was much less, and I still have all the original rollstamps, caliber codes, and serial number.
No question in my mind which was cheaper, and better.
  

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kensmachine
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #15 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 9:55pm
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The only thing the budget was set for 4-6 months not 1-1 1/2 it's put my in a tight spot.  ken
  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #16 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 12:27am
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How about using it for a long range carbine?  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #17 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 9:38am
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If it were full length I'd tell you to line it but it ain't. I'd rebarrel it. Keepthe original barrel with the gun.

40 Rod
  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #18 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 11:53am
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Here's a idea, shorten it to 16", have JT add a round section, to bring it to 28+ and put a wedding band at the joint, to hide the joint then re-line it.

Frank
  

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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #19 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 1:29pm
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I like Frank's idea quite a bit. You can save the whole kaboodle by using that method and have a neat gun to shoot in the bargain.
  

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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #20 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 2:47pm
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Choice of next step?

Contact Gail or Paul at CPA - new stock & barrel of your choice - $825, barrel & Stock
  

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John
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marlinguy
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #21 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 3:11pm
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frnkeore wrote on Apr 9th, 2019 at 11:53am:
Here's a idea, shorten it to 16", have JT add a round section, to bring it to 28+ and put a wedding band at the joint, to hide the joint then re-line it.

Frank


No reason to hide any joint when John Taylor lengthens a barrel. I guarantee nobody will ever know it's been lengthened when he is done welding and polishing the surfaces. But he could still make it half octagon if the OP wanted that, and only add 8" to the existing to get to 30". No reason to cut more off to add more on.

But 16" would be too much octagon to make it look correct. The octagon should end at the end of the forearm wood, which usually is about 11" or so.
  

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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #22 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 3:14pm
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I go with John Boy's thinking and add a call to C Sharps would be worthwhile as well. Not trying to berate anybody's work but no way I would put good money into a two piece barrel.
  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #23 - Apr 9th, 2019 at 5:24pm
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Good to know John Taylor can lengthen a barrel. I have a low wall barrel with a Browning Bros stamp I would like to have lengthened and a liner. Thanks for info. Mike
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #24 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 11:01am
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Premod70 wrote on Apr 9th, 2019 at 3:14pm:
I go with John Boy's thinking and add a call to C Sharps would be worthwhile as well. Not trying to berate anybody's work but no way I would put good money into a two piece barrel.


Every barrel with a liner in it is a two piece barrel.
But a barrel that has an extension welded to it is no more a two piece barrel than your car frame is two pieces, or more when it's welded together.
The stub welded on is simply surrounding metal, and once welded together, and a quality liner installed, it's stronger and better than an original barrel. The welds are all beveled and welded through to create a one piece barrel when the welding is complete.
You're welcome to toss more money into a new barrel, and all the expense of making it look original. But I know from the ones I presently shoot that they're strong, well built, and shoot as good as any new barrel that's even close in price.
  

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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #25 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 1:30pm
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marlinguy wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 11:01am:
Premod70 wrote on Apr 9th, 2019 at 3:14pm:
I go with John Boy's thinking and add a call to C Sharps would be worthwhile as well. Not trying to berate anybody's work but no way I would put good money into a two piece barrel.


Every barrel with a liner in it is a two piece barrel.
But a barrel that has an extension welded to it is no more a two piece barrel than your car frame is two pieces, or more when it's welded together.
The stub welded on is simply surrounding metal, and once welded together, and a quality liner installed, it's stronger and better than an original barrel. The welds are all beveled and welded through to create a one piece barrel when the welding is complete.
You're welcome to toss more money into a new barrel, and all the expense of making it look original. But I know from the ones I presently shoot that they're strong, well built, and shoot as good as any new barrel that's even close in price.


Curious, could selling such a reworked rifle to another individual and representing it as an original rifle be considered shameful?
« Last Edit: Apr 10th, 2019 at 5:18pm by Premod70 »  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #26 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 1:49pm
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rather than welding an extension on it, I've seen where they drill out a 10" section of the octagon, and turn down a round barrel blank, and stuff it in like a liner. This preserves all the stamps, saves you from having to weld on a barrel (induces stresses), and still makes it a fine looking rifle with a half round/half octagon barrel.
  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #27 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 3:18pm
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I do all my own machine work and have rebarreled many rifles. I searched my stack of leftovers and found a .348 barrel I had pulled off a High Wall  to make a customer a 40-65. I had trouble with cases sticking in chamber when I got it originally. I set the barrel back three threads and made a new offset mainspring base, and shortened back of forend .187.  Rental reamer should be here tomorrow to rechamber. Already had reloading dies. Ordered new stock from CPA and it has shipped.  just rechambered an original High Wall I had chambered for 375 H&H to 375 Flanged Magnum.  Had to set barrel back far enough to remove cut for belt and rechamber. Re fit barrel rib forearm and offset main spring base.  It blows gallon cans of water to pieces.
  
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Re: 1885 Highwall deliemna
Reply #28 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 4:47pm
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JSB, that original barrel was probably chambered for Paper Patch bullets.
No throat just a case chamber and a 45 degree chamfer at the end. Paper patch bullets are/were Bore size not Groove size as we shoot today. I have a number of original Rifles with Original Paper Patch chambers and they all will accept a fixed loaded shell with a Bore size bullet without a problem, until they get fouled with Black Powder fouling then they start getting tight and at times will not accept a clean loaded shell. HTH Regards, FITZ. OLD TUCK Smiley
  
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