Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Need advice on selecting casting equipment (Read 1735 times)
Cbashooter
Junior Forum Member
**
Online



Posts: 84
Joined: Mar 31st, 2018
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #15 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 9:16am
Print Post  
40_Rod wrote on Apr 24th, 2019 at 9:53am:
A Lee pot is fine
I like an RCBS Dipper
Dont cast too hard A lot of cast bullet shooters will tell you harder is better. It aint so. Stay away from antimony.
Never use a bottom pour pot if you want accuracy

40 Rod


I pour both ladle and bottom, equal accuraccy in my dedicated bench rifles.i get accuraccy with both hard and soft bullets depending on velocity demands.and some of my alloys have  the evil antimony in them!

not trying to be a contrary but shooting cast matches on  and off for 30 years I've seen people getting stellar results with things I thought were "wrong".

for the record i mostly dipper pour out of my waage with an.rcbs dipper.

Pope used a bottom pour.btw
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 3982
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #16 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:06am
Print Post  
Pope Used a dipper, Pope did design a bottom pour pot.

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Tune Your Rifle: Make
Her Sing

Posts: 3510
Location: St. Albert
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #17 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:21am
Print Post  
40 Rod is absolutely correct to advise you to stay away from antimony.

When I started this game I used antimony and always had heavy leading within 30 shots.
Went to Tin only alloys and can easily shoot over 100 shots without leading.

Some Canadian Shooters (including Ron Smith) tested using a bottom pour pot for a couple of years and comparing their scores to competitions from previous and subsequent years using a dipper.

After long term testing scores always were higher from bullets made from dipper casting.

I only use dipper cast bullets using a 20:1 Lead:Tin alloy.

I use a propane burner and cast my bullets at 862 degrees F in my home made pot.
No I do not get frosted bullets using a Tin alloy.

I have used a Lyman dipper for decades.
« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:32am by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6705
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #18 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 11:16am
Print Post  
Not sure what 40Rod meant by being to hard. Myself I have had good success with 16-1 for my own competitive use. Not trying to say it's the best but don't shy away from trying it someday. Once you get settled in work up from 30-1 to 10-1 and then decide what works the best for your own use. If I had to choose but one based on my own long term testing it would be 18-1 a bit better than 20-1 and real close to 16-1 and what I choose to use. Back in the day John D Kelly who Pope considered to be the Dean of Benchrest often times used 10-1 as did others. It does have a tendency to be more critical to proper Bullet fit and it is also quite a bit more costly to use. It has worked very well for me in the past and I would encourage you to also give it a try someday if and when time allows.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Tune Your Rifle: Make
Her Sing

Posts: 3510
Location: St. Albert
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #19 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 11:31am
Print Post  
Bullets that are too hard do not bump up and seal their base.
This allows gas to cut around the bullet base causing leading.

Also hard bullets end up bending the rods on bullet seaters which then start pushing bullets out of alignment which really screws up your accuracy.

I always use bullets .002" wider than the groove-to-groove diameter to ensure a quicker and efficient seal of the bullet in the bore to minimize the potential of gas cutting.

Also choked barrels (RKS and BRC) also help reduce the potential of gas cutting around a cast bullet.
« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2019 at 11:42am by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6705
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #20 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 1:10pm
Print Post  
That has never been my own personal experience over the past eighteen years? When one refers to being to hard there has yet to be a clear clarification of what that might be for this gentleman to more clearly understand.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6268
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #21 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 1:34pm
Print Post  
Schuetzendave wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:21am:
Some Canadian Shooters (including Ron Smith) tested using a bottom pour pot for a couple of years and comparing their scores to competitions from previous and subsequent years using a dipper.


Dave, Were there any other indications of bullet quality; ie, weight variations, visual, or??
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Tune Your Rifle: Make
Her Sing

Posts: 3510
Location: St. Albert
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #22 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 2:07pm
Print Post  
The bullets that were bottom poured appeared on the outside to be of the same quality as the bullets that were dip poured.
However the bottom poured bullets had more internal air bubbles trapped inside (greater weight variation).
With the proper technique of turning the block sideways and turning it upright when you dip pour; you are better able to drive the air out of the mould.

Generally Schuetzen shooters believe an alloy harder than 20:1 or a hardness of BHN10 is too hard.

Black Powder shooters believe it should be even softer to properly bump up using black powder.

However the higher velocity and fixed ammunition CBA shooters believe it should be harder.

But the Pistol/Revolver shooters expect you need even harder lead to obtain accuracy.

So it all depends on which powder, which velocity you are shooting at and how the bullet enters the bore of the firearm you are using.
« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2019 at 2:14pm by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6268
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #23 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 3:41pm
Print Post  
I suspected that might be the case. Any idea on hose much the weight varied?
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Tune Your Rifle: Make
Her Sing

Posts: 3510
Location: St. Albert
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #24 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 4:34pm
Print Post  
Others did the testing and I do not have the data.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 3982
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #25 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:19am
Print Post  
John
If Your adding puterr to your wheelweights to make it harder its too hard!

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6705
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #26 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 10:33am
Print Post  
Totally agree John having experimented with various additions of antimony for a bit over a year. Lino and Mono Type has worked out well for CBA Heavy and Production Classes but not so for my own Plainbase breech seated uses.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 11669
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #27 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 10:55am
Print Post  
I use linotype, but as a mix with pure lead, not just linotype. I use it 3:1 mix and get the hardness I like for my rifles.
Just found a 22 lb. bar of linotype at our gun show Sunday for $35. Seller told me he's got plenty more, so might buy whatever he's got. I like using linotype mixed with pure lead.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6705
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #28 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 11:22am
Print Post  
Vall out of all of those I have tried 50-50 pure lead and lino showed allot of promise but the consistency in regards to group size just wasn't there. This also holds true to all of the lead, tin and antimony variations that were tried. I once had over fifty pounds of lino type and I gave it to a Heavy Class CBA friend for him to use. The rest of the various I tried were given to a pistol shooter for his casting and plinking use.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 2723
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Need advice on selecting casting equipment
Reply #29 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 12:49pm
Print Post  
I've got about forty pounds of .32 cal. gas check bullets that a friend cast back in 1953 that I shoot now and then. They ain't target freak accurate, but if I had to hunt with the rifle (heaven forbid), it's the bullet I'd use. Alloy? not sure, but they's as hard as a teenager's....................skull.  Shocked
  

happily ignored by J. "Sonny" Louis
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint