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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE (Read 2202 times)
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #15 - May 2nd, 2019 at 7:38am
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Joe glad you are back, give us something to think about.

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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #16 - May 2nd, 2019 at 10:55am
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joeb33050 wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 6:08am:
This was not a test, merely a sum of my records. Yesterday was my first match in years, 22RF/50 yards. Came in 3rd of 17 shooters. Several marveled at the GECO accuracy. 

[quote author=746F646464656C6C65000 link=1556707688/11#11 date=1556776890]The problem with a test like this is none of the scopes were likely to have been checked in any way, at least it wasn’t mentioned.


Not a bad finish at all, congratulations on the comeback.

I'm a bit surprised at 30x plus at fifty yards, Is that what you normally use at that short of distance?
  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #17 - May 2nd, 2019 at 11:21am
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the BR50 crowd shoot at 50 yards and use very high powered scopes on their 22s
beltfed/arnie
  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #18 - May 2nd, 2019 at 11:38am
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beltfed wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 11:21am:
the BR50 crowd shoot at 50 yards and use very high powered scopes on their 22s
beltfed/arnie


If I do that, the sight picture looks like I either have parkinsons or the time I told the cute young gal at the coffee shop who wanted me to try a new flavor, to make it like she drinks it. Five shots did not mean what I thought it meant.  Cheesy That's about how I looked.
  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUST
Reply #19 - May 2nd, 2019 at 12:33pm
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International Small-bore Prone is Shot at 50 meters. It’s a good distance to test skill with some, not too much,  condition interference.  100 conditions play a larger part. American SB prone any sight is 50 & 100. High power Scopes allow spotting through the rifles scope, no need to come out of position and use a spotting scope.

200 Rimfire is a gamble that can be in the competitors favor if they wait out wind changes. Good spotting scope let’s you read mirage, best wind indicator possible.   Most of the shorter distance competitions have limited time relays you can’t wait or have much time to read mirage.
  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #20 - May 2nd, 2019 at 7:35pm
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This would be interesting if I somehow placed a lot of import on a 50 year old opinion.
On a serious note if there were a sniff of validity to this why, just a few years ago, was there a fair trend for the most precise guns on the planet(centerfire benchrest guns) to freeze many scopes to convert them to external adjustment systems ?
  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #21 - May 2nd, 2019 at 7:53pm
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I remember one  of the NBRSA guys at Tacoma showing me his hard mounted scope.  Any adjustment had to be made by reworking the single piece base.
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #22 - May 2nd, 2019 at 8:15pm
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BR50 Target was shot with a 32X scope with a very fine crosshair which allows you to pick different spots within the bulls eye to aim at.

Holding off to compensate for wind changes is essential since you have so little time you cannot wait for a wind condition to return.

Shooting BR50 really teaches you how to call and adjust for wind changes.
« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2019 at 8:22pm by Schuetzendave »  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #23 - May 2nd, 2019 at 8:52pm
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How many flags do you put out for 50 yds., Dave?
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #24 - May 2nd, 2019 at 10:53pm
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Bob:

Three flags out to 50 yards, five flags to 100 yards, and six to seven flags out to 200 yards all in a perfect line so you can read them all at once.

As you know this confuses everyone trying to figure out which one I consider to be the most important.

I could tell you the flags that are most important at Spokane depending if you are shooting on the left, middle or right side of the range and depending on where the wind is coming from.
But I do not want to handicap the Canadian Team.

Dave
« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2019 at 11:00pm by Schuetzendave »  
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JLouis
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #25 - May 3rd, 2019 at 9:05am
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Tim-S scopes were frozen to eliminate point of impact changes a common problem in the day even with the more expensive scopes. Most manufacturer's have a pretty good handle on it these days. You brought up a very good point and one that is often times overlooked.
  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #26 - May 3rd, 2019 at 3:13pm
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JLouis wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 9:05am:
Tim-S scopes were frozen to eliminate point of impact changes a common problem in the day even with the more expensive scopes. Most manufacturer's have a pretty good handle on it these days. You brought up a very good point and one that is often times overlooked.


Yes. While I framed it in the form of a question, it was more of a rhetorical one.
In point of fact this development took place right after Leupold came to market with their 35x,40x & 45x LCS series, the first generation of which were plagued with POI issues which were largely corrected in the 2nd but no retrofit for the early ones. The third gen had further improvement and they’re pretty reliable now.
This was about the time the legendary March 40’s hit the US at almost $2000 and then the legendary Niteforce’s.
We now have unbelievable optics available(for a price).
I am just finalizing a new build and cannot wait to mount my new March 48X high master, the latest and greatest offering from Japan.

There are still several rimfire BR guys shooting frozen Leuy’s, most of them seemingly in the Brackney type mount which utilizes micrometer barrel windage and elevation type adjustments.

IMHO the best oem external adjustment scopes ever made were the Unertl BV 20’s and the few Remington’s made by Unertl.
« Last Edit: May 3rd, 2019 at 3:20pm by tim_s »  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #27 - May 3rd, 2019 at 8:53pm
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Totally agree and familiar with everything you pointed out and thanks for sharing TimS.
  
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #28 - May 6th, 2019 at 12:58pm
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joeb33050 wrote on May 1st, 2019 at 6:48am:
SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
     Warren page wrote that the externally adjustable scopes hinder accuracy.
     I have been shooting my BSA Martini, 50 yards, 5-shot groups, GECO Semi-Automatic ammunition, with three different scopes. Here are the records:
30X Lyman STS, 30 groups, .534” average group size
Tasco # 705 Externally Adjustable, 6-18, 40 groups, .481” average group size
Weaver T36, 80 groups, .429” average group size
     While that Lyman/Unertl/Fecker/Litschert/Davis scope may look good on a rifle, maybe it is causing some inaccuracy.


Two things to keep in mind when switching scopes:
1) Different length and weight scopes affect the harmonics of a rifle
2) Were all the scopes precisely adjusted to minimize parallax for the distance?  And even if so than there may still be some parallax affect from scope to scope.

Wayne
  

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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #29 - May 6th, 2019 at 4:51pm
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TIM-S   Just to keep things accurate, Remington scopes were made by Remington, not Unertl. It is a common mistake. They were developed by Mike Walker, and built in house. The early scopes used Unertl mounts which caused some of the confusion. At a later date Remington made their own mounts. They were quite good scopes, but came at a time when internally adjusted and receiver mounted scopes were becoming available, such as Wally Seibert power boosted Lyman perma-center 20x scopes. Some very good benchrest shooters have gone back to using some of those scopes. I don't believe that there is any question that externally adjusted scopes are not the equal of modern internally adjusted scopes, but to my eye, they look totaly out of place on a fine old single shot rifle, and I am more than willing to give up a little to keep the old scopes on board.  Krag                     As a side note I have both a 20x and later 24x Remington scope, but they are all but unusable on a single shot rifle as they were designed to be receiver mounted and it is difficult to get them mounted on the barrel with adequate eye relief, especially for offhand use.
  

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