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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE (Read 3225 times)
tim_s
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #30 - May 8th, 2019 at 11:17pm
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rkba2nd wrote on May 6th, 2019 at 4:51pm:
TIM-S   Just to keep things accurate, Remington scopes were made by Remington, not Unertl. It is a common mistake. They were developed by Mike Walker, and built in house. The early scopes used Unertl mounts which caused some of the confusion. At a later date Remington made their own mounts. They were quite good scopes, but came at a time when internally adjusted and receiver mounted scopes were becoming available, such as Wally Seibert power boosted Lyman perma-center 20x scopes. Some very good benchrest shooters have gone back to using some of those scopes. I don't believe that there is any question that externally adjusted scopes are not the equal of modern internally adjusted scopes, but to my eye, they look totaly out of place on a fine old single shot rifle, and I am more than willing to give up a little to keep the old scopes on board.  Krag                     As a side note I have both a 20x and later 24x Remington scope, but they are all but unusable on a single shot rifle as they were designed to be receiver mounted and it is difficult to get them mounted on the barrel with adequate eye relief, especially for offhand use.



My bad, meant to say “ in partnership with Unertl” ( for several).
Could have bought a couple including one of only a couple internal adjustment ones from Jimmy Stekl.
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #31 - May 8th, 2019 at 11:56pm
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No bad involved(I assume your name is) Tim. There are probably not enough people to fill a bus, that care who built the Remington scopes, or who developed them. I just have an interest in that kind of information, and like to pass it along to those who might. I have seen photos of the internally adjusted scopes that you mention, but don't recall at this moment who that was that ended up with them. There is a gentleman, who now resides in I believe Australia or New Zealand, who was the lead engineer and Walkers right hand man on the project. He wrote a very interesting first hand account of the project and its end product. Thanks for responding to my post, and from the sound of it you must have been active in short range benchrest, or perhaps still are. If you have the time or inclination I would like to hear more from you. A PM is a better place rather than this thread. Best regards  Krag
  

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tim_s
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #32 - May 9th, 2019 at 1:51pm
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Walker had one and Stekl Had one, his might have gone to Butch Lambert.
I have shot a lot with Jim, live 50 miles from Remington, still shoot CF & RF benchrest.
  
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Gard72977
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #33 - May 11th, 2019 at 8:59am
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I would try some better ammo....
  
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oneatatime
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #34 - May 11th, 2019 at 10:42am
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Actually, and oddly, Federal Auto Match, at about the same price point as joeb's GECO Semi Automatic, shoots extremely well in some of my rifles.
  
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Gard72977
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #35 - May 11th, 2019 at 6:55pm
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I understand using cheap ammo for practice. Why take sub quality ammo to a match and place 3rd when you could shoot quality ammo and compete for first or second.

With my income I choose $0.14  ammo for my practice .
It eliminates most fliers. It really builds my self confidence when I score well in practice.

Accurracy gets exponentially more expensive.
  
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Gard72977
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #36 - May 11th, 2019 at 6:57pm
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I understand using cheap ammo for practice. Why take sub quality ammo to a match and place 3rd when you could shoot quality ammo and compete for first or second.

With my income I choose $0.14  ammo for my practice .
It eliminates most fliers. It really builds my self confidence when I score well in practice.

Accurracy gets exponentially more expensive. I picked this price point because it balances with my shooting skill. I would love to have a need for $0.30 ammo for offhand shooting
  
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oneatatime
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #37 - May 11th, 2019 at 7:22pm
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I have something over 2 dozen different boxes of 22 ammo running the gamut of .05 to .25 a round that I try in each of my rifles. You might be surprised how often price has little to do with performance in any particular rifle. I'm happy you found one your rifle likes. I'm sorry it happened to be one of the moderately expensive ones;-)
  
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JLouis
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #38 - May 12th, 2019 at 2:39pm
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Practicing with substandard ammo is not the way to become extremely competive you have to practice with what you shoot in a match. That is why it's become a rich man's game you have to learn what to expect from each and every shot with the ammo you will be competing with. The effects off the conditions are not same from the various others and why substandard should never be used.
« Last Edit: May 12th, 2019 at 2:45pm by JLouis »  
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joeb33050
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #39 - May 12th, 2019 at 4:15pm
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Except for perhaps 1-2% of shooters, in rimfire, you're dead wrong. Eley Tenex is the most accurate rf ammunition by far, and costs $15 for 50 shots, 30 cents a shot. Minimum. I shoot 100 target shots per session, and shoot 3-4 times a week. $90-$120 per week, less sighters, is crazy. I shoot lesser cost/lesser accuracy rf ammunition for practice, and every shooter I know does the same. RF Central shooters report doing so also.
Yesterday I ordered a case of GECO Semi-Auto, 5000 rounds, for $232 delivered. This ammunition will shoot 5-shot groups well under .5" at 50 yards, reliably. I shoot SK Standard Plus in my Charger, at 10 cents a shot.
In my short time seriously shooting rimfire, I've formed the opinion that rimfire shooting is much more difficult than center fire/schuetzen shooting.
I can load 223 jacketed for 22 cents a round and shoot it in a $450 Savage rifle as or more accurately as Tenex at 50 yards, and more accurately at 100-200 yards. That's easy. Rimfire will test the best schutzen shooters, benchrest or offhand.






JLouis wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
Practicing with substandard ammo is not the way to become extremely competive you have to practice with what you shoot in a match. That is why it's become a rich man's game you have to learn what to expect from each and every shot with the ammo you will be competing with. The effects off the conditions are not same from the various others and why substandard should never be used.

  
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tim_s
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #40 - May 13th, 2019 at 5:59pm
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JLouis wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
Practicing with substandard ammo is not the way to become extremely competive you have to practice with what you shoot in a match. That is why it's become a rich man's game you have to learn what to expect from each and every shot with the ammo you will be competing with. The effects off the conditions are not same from the various others and why substandard should never be used.


That is absolutely, 100% correct.
If you have a mediocre to fair rifle you might get away with it, base on the primary consideration being the guns limitations.
Quality guns often have ammo preferences as well the fact that the wind characteristics/ hold off will be significantly different.
The very basis of practice is learning what to expect from your equipment under less than optimum conditions.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #41 - May 13th, 2019 at 8:39pm
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Hey joeb, just looked up some notes from one of my rifles. Average group size with Federal Auto Match was .6 - with Eley Tenex 1.5. You don't know if you don't try;-)
  
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Gard72977
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #42 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:45pm
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oneatatime wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 8:39pm:
Hey joeb, just looked up some notes from one of my rifles. Average group size with Federal Auto Match was .6 - with Eley Tenex 1.5. You don't know if you don't try;-)



Not to sound  disrepcetful but this is not proof of anything. When you buy match ammo you are paying for consisantcy. Just because the Eley did not shoot in your gun does not mean it's not high-quality ammo. Your gun just does not like it.

Put 40 rounds of Remington Auto in one group and it will show fliers. When you buy quality ammo that works in your barrel the fliers will almost completely dissapear.

Any shooters consistently winning RF matches will be shooting quality ammo.

  
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oneatatime
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #43 - May 14th, 2019 at 12:36am
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I think you've said what I was saying. If your rifle doesn't like it, it doesn't matter how high quality, how consistent, or how expensive the ammo was.
  
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tim_s
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Re: SCOPES, EXTERNALLY ADJUSTABLE
Reply #44 - May 14th, 2019 at 2:14pm
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[quote author=3221306562636561510 link=1556707688/41#41 date=1557794369]Hey joeb, just looked up some notes from one of my rifles. Average group size with Federal Auto Match was .6 - with Eley Tenex 1.5. You don't know if you don't try;-)[/quote

Curious about something. When you shot the ELEY did you completely clean the bore, as in right down to clean metal ?
  
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